I have found recently on track that nearly every bend I am dragging toe and peg (as well as Knee), I think my body position is fairly good but I'm worried I'm only a few laps away from a lowside. I have adjustable rear sets so I'm thinking of moving the pegs up, how far can you go on road tyres in terms of lean (racetecs/supercorsas) before you start pushing it too much? Just interested to know how you guys have got round this problem on your roadbikes/trackbikes? Cheers YT
I found this too when I first started doing a lot of track riding and for my first 2 races I was doing exactly the same, but you find that it seems to develop naturally. Hanging off the bike is key to it and at first it seems as though you can be hanging off too far, but this seems to be the key to it. I would say that your body position looks pretty good. Certainly try moving the pegs up, but you may find that you compromise the comfort side of it, which will make a difference to your riding again. I was told to use the screen as a door and peer round it when you are cornering. It seems to work for me, but I still have a long way to go.
This is a recent picture and you can see my toe is dragging, ive now gone through the sliders and have a hole in my £350 alpinestars do i need to hang off more?
At times you can try too hard to get your knee down and it doesn't always make you quicker. Since thinking more about my body position, I haven't had my toes hit the floor at all and I have become a lot smoother. This pic shows my mate Jay Harris in action. A lot can be learned from photos like this:
You're such a show off Tyke!!! Seriously tho I am having major issues with foot pegs bottoming out when on major leans. The reason you are wearing your boots out is because you are not putting your pads of your toes up onto pegs. I only put my feet down onto peg properly on the straights and just my left to change gear. You can see my foot tucked up so its my toes on peg not back of foot in the below pic. I wouldn't get any lean at all with my size 10's otherwise
YT, I'm bad for this also (toes) and your pick looks a lot like mine does at times, looks like your hanging off to get knee down and not for the corner, you then emphasise to much on the knee out, which means your foot is too far down the peg and your not on your toes on the peg.... The lean comes but your too committed to adjust then wreck your boots.... Titanium toe sliders help... But I now try hard to enter with foot in correct position, not try to get knee down as soon as I tip in (yes it looks cool) and of course the knee down will come anyway. Found it made my whole corner entry that much smoother. I might be wrong, but looks and sounds like we are both guilty of the same thing. Look at the pic that robin posted, the guys foot is tucked right back, but your toe is poking out and down. Just a thought....
Yeah I'm gonna try and move my rearsets up and back a little bit, I normally ride on the balls of my feet but will try and adopt the toes on pegs style instead for next trackday. Still bottom the pegs a bit though so hopefully moving them back will solve it. I've started to realise that knee down on every corner isn't the fastest way, do enjoy dragging it though, feels well nice. But sliders aren't cheap and I'm about to run out of all the ones from old leathers. It is good for measuring how far your over, but I've noticed many lads just touch it down then stay at the same angle and bring the knee back in, or lean over further...
AS Jimbo says, getting your knee down isn't necessarily the quickest way around a corner. The ultimate aim is keep the bike as upright as possible, so that means hanging off it more. I am certainly no expert in this at all, but I have listened to a lot of the race lads give me tips. Another thing that does help, is looking as far ahead as possible.
It feels so much better and more stable with your toes pushing on the pegs which is harder to do to help your bike stability when on your heels
I was told by an ex BSB racer (while doing the Ron Haslam school) to put the flat of my foot against the heel plate. That way if the peg ground and pivoted up first it wouldn't matter or interfere with your body position round the bend. It felt unnatural at first burnout did help.
Can I just add it may look like my foot is overhanging a lot but its because I was told you are best to put the ball of your feet or your toes on the end of your footpeg, so it's probably covering it up somewhat, rather than on the main bit of it is this bad advise?
I wouldn't mate (balls of feet on pegs) , you are then twisting you knee round, will get it down easier but far more lean angle to be achieved. I try to hang off but keep my toes on the peg as parallel to the bike as poss... Not advice given, just find it most comfortable a good gauge of angle and not putting to much strain on your ankle
I think that a lot of this will come with practice and track time. Road riding has very different disciplines from track riding and trying to switch is not easy. Don't try to change everything at once. take things at your own pace and it will come over time. I have learned so much this year just by listening to other riders and then following faster lads through corners. Adjusting your foot pegs may help with ground clearance, but remember that you need to be comfortable on the bike too. My new R6 has a fancy all singing all dancing rear subframe which doesn't kick the seat up quite as much as the standard one does. For me it is a terrible riding position and I can't move about on the bike as much. I have adjusted the pegs but I am still at the wrong angle in relation to the pegs, so I have ordered a genuine Yamaha subframe. You need to be comfy in order to move about is what I am trying to say, in a very round about sort of waffly way.
Again, this does ease up after time. I found that my legs were killing after the first 2 races of the year, but since then, they have eased up massively.
I think your opening comment is fairly spot on YT, and although its always hard to view from a couple of pics, the second looks like you are getting in position where you are close to riding off the edge of the tyre. Just sit for a while at a corner on any track day, and you will soon see the potential lowsiderers, they are right on that edge, and sometimes you can get away with it on your knee, others it will just wash out. I remember having a huge off coming out of Clearways, and the trackside photographer said he was focusing on me each lap, as he could see where I was going to end up (smug fecker!), but he was right, I was right off the bike, but in the wrong position, and the bike had too much angle, did not keep enough contact patch on blacktop, and after about the 10th lap it just slid away.
So how do i maintain the same speed round the same corner with less lean angle? Hang of even more? Lol
Yep, hanging off is the key. To start with, it feels a bit ridiculous, but it is the only way forward.
I do hang off but i dont wanna be like a monkey lol. I think hanging lower rather than further out may help. I know im not always on the limit of grip but there was times at oulton where the back was sliding a little bit but that was probably a question of controlling the throttle. There definitely is a technique to cornering that involves more than the line itself, the apex and the braking point. Smoothing the brake into the application of the throttle and getting the bike stood up to get the power down. I think this is why the pros can spend years at their favourite track always striving for the perfect lap. Casey stoner is soo impressive at this when hes drifting it at phillip island but i reckon that happens because everything was right at that time in that corner. Just wish i had more tracktime to perfect the dark art
Robins comments are spot on YT, but at the end of the day mate, sometimes its just about ability. Many years ago, I was trolling down to my local dealers on a CBR 6 when a guy came flying past on a Triumph, all sit up and beg, latched onto him, knew the road like the back of my hand, struggled to cling to him before he pulled away, I was all over the bike like a bad fitting suit, he hardly moved from the seat. Got to the shop, and he was parked up pulling his lid off, grinning all over his face.........it was the owner Paul Smart....and that my friend is the difference between being able to ride a bike and race a bike...just a god given talent.
