This is mainly asked for use on track, but could probably come in handy on the road too. My question is can you still lose the front if you are hard on the brakes but bolt upright? On tuesday I was braking (this is without ABS) very hard and felt the back wiggling around a bit but nothing mental. Couldn't help but feel I could brake harder, would you end up doin a stoppie before anything happened, how does it work?
If the grip is available and you are in a perfectly straight line then yes the bike will perform a stoppie and go right over forwards if you keep on it. Plenty of Tits on Youtube doing stoppies that go wrong and this happens, have a look! If on an angle going in to a bend then the rear will come round on you and eventually wash out at the front I spose.
Yeah i'm not trying to do stoppies don't care for that shit. Just wanna know how late I can brake or how hard. IF the back is wiggling does that mean I'm pushing it too much? Don't fancy binning my trackbike anytime soon lol
Well yes is the answer! If you can feel the back end squirming it's because it's unloaded and about to leave the deck so that's your indicator, 'seat-of-the-pants' feeling, to back it off right there.
OK not been riding long so thought I'd seek some advice on here! lol. better knowing than pushing further and further and then finding the limit cos then it will end in tears
You can try and settle the rear and keep it down by shifting your weight back a bit once you've started braking. I find the slipper clutch on the 08s onwards really helps with the rear feeling under hard braking.
a mate on his millie, coming down the m62 from yorkshire at night, pinning it down the outside lane when a car drifted into his lane.... he jammed on in panic and did a 120+mph endo.... i hadnt realised this til he said, but when you do a stoppie in the dark your lights point at the wheel and you cant see! it shit the life out of him, not knowing how close to impact he was.... so much so that when he got home (made the fatal mistake of telling his missis!) his bikes and gear all went on ebay and he hasnt ridden on the road since. i think youre better off knowing how hard you can brake though.... especially after changing brand of tyre - your new ones might not be as grippy as the old ones... i found myself locking up with diablo corsas on whereas sportmax held on tight. and if youve fitted braided lines, theyre not very forgiving lol. whereas with std hoses theres a bit of give, braids are like chucking a scaff pole between the spokes!
This is on my GSXR750 trackbike, it does have a slipper clutch tho. I will try moving my weight back further next time, was ending up on the tank tho when braking hard.
tbh thats alot to be thinking about and doing pushing your weight back whilst braking hard,and all your really going to do is put more pressure on your arms,unless you still have your weight in the seat centre.make sure you are locked up against the tank to try to stop too much weight going into the front.1 thing could be suspension,if you are bottoming out the front,then this will cause the rear to rise as the bike cant compress any further,but it can also point to a rear problem,or bad set up,you'd be suprised how many front end issues are sorted by rear adjustments.have you ahd the suspension set up? also do you have a marker on your frorks to tell you how far down the stantchion your forks are travelling? this is a good indication that your using all the travel,oir if you need different settings. as far as hardness of braking goes though,your front will not wash out if it's dry and your bolt upright,even leaning in to the corner to a point,but trail braking takes a bit of practice and nerve to get it right,in theory you should,on track at least be braking all the way upto the apex.
At the end of the day hard braking, acceleration and cornering which are nearing the limits of the bike you're riding are all 'seat of the pants' stuff which can't overly be taught too specifically. It's a feel for things which some Peeps have in abundance and some don't. Mr Marquez is dripping in 'feel' hence his amazing skill level despite the recent 'offs'
maybe not feel (well to a point) but knowing why your bike does something,and the ability to change it can be. feeling your rear go light/loose/slide is feeling,and you can then start to think why,is there something i can change to push the limit further? i.e are my tyre pressures correct,suspension set up correct etc..you'd be suprised what a suspension tech can do to your bike with just a little feedback. theres very few people that can push a perfectly set up bike to it's limits time and time again,so we just have to find a comfortable zone and work in that,until you feel more confident to push outside your comfort zone,on track it's the only way you'll progress.
learn stoppie for braking....stoppies are real easy when you practice them but as said get it wrong and it will end in tears, but I find them useful as you can learn the limits and when the front locks(which it does on the odd stoppie) you simply let off and reapply the brake.
When I was coming out of charlies the back end was kicking quite a bit, but really can't imagine I was riding hard enough for that to happen! The suspension was set up for an 11 stone rider, which is probably what I am in all my gear. Any explanation?
Some really useful comments. Setting up the suspension makes no end of difference. If the front bottoms out you are asking for it to lock. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is tyre temperature or the temp of the tarmac. The tyres work so muck better when they're fully warm, and you can feel more grip on a warm day. I wouldn't go trying a stoppie on cold tyres in the cold.. Ozz
if your pulling stoppies whilst out on track (which is where this thread is aimed) then your going about it all wrong and wont progress out of the novice group,thats if you manage to stay on your bike long enough to do a full session . YT,you need to get the suspension set up for you,not a general setting for an 11stone rider. tell the sussie guy what you've said on here and i gaurantee he'll sort it out for you.
no im saying stoppies teach you were the limit is, the op said mainly aimed at tracks but could be useful for the road to know how hard you can brake. If you can stoppie like second nature you can brake to the limit of the tyres with confindence, thats what I am saying.Im not staying go out and try to be a stunt rider on track, thats just silly lmao
Yeah the bike was originally set up by 100% suspension. they are normally at most travk days from what ive heard. might have a word
I tend to brake hard and late for the hairpins at Snetty and can have my rear end waving quite dramatically but in a straight line it's not a problem to control but if you were trying to also lean in for the turn..... bye bye lol
There's some good Crash Vids on Youtube of TT riders going down under heavy braking with their 'Tails' in the air whilst tipping in to a bend.
