RIP David Haines

So, seeing as you feel so strongly about it I presume that you're going to get a flight to Iraq, pick up a rifle and help the Peshmerga?

 

I'm sure the Kurds will do fine with some assistance from the Americans. I believe there are many other countries willing to contribute and heard we will be providing assistance in the form of weapons and humanitarian aid,which I fully support taxpayers money being spent on.

 

So you're not then.

You're prepared to pack other people's sons and daughters off to foreign lands to have their legs blown off?

At least the militants who've left this country to fight have the courage of their convictions and are prepared to fight to the death for what they believe in.

All we care about in this country, largely speaking, is making sure that this whole thing doesn't impact OUR lives. Once it starts affecting the cost of the petrol we put in our bikes, we'll start kicking off.

 

No I'm not. I'll stick to working in a maximum security prison keeping all the killers and rapists locked up. And no I don't support setting boots on the ground,there are plenty of other ways we can assist. However,if a decision was made to go in and assist I'm sure our armed forces would make us proud once again.

 

The problem i see Ross is this, and this is only a tiny example. We are now arming the Kurds of Iraq to fight IS. So when and it will happen, IS are pushed out of Iraq the Kurds will be fighting for their own independence using the weapons we supplied. So we will all be calling for the destruction of the Kurds and arming someone else to fight them and it goes on...

Guess what, that list of countries that Nick quoted where we see unrest, the UK/US have had their sticky little fingers involved somewhere along the way in each and everyone of them. We go in, conquer, attempt to westernise and re-draw maps. Only to find them destroying each other later and then blame it on them....

For once why don't we just leave well alone and if they want to destroy each other then let it be.....

 

With everyone uniting against a common enemy this might be a good thing for the region. We can but hope.

 

What's your job got to do with things?

I'm simply asking why you're advocating the slaughter of other people BY other people and are unwilling to put yourself in harm's way and fight yourself if you're so passionately convinced that it's the right thing to do.

And our forces making us proud. Sure enough they did an admirable job under extremely difficult circumstances and what's it got them? Pensioning off and PTSD, in many cases.

Please understand that I'm really not trying to have a personal dig at you. I'm just stating my opinion in a calm manner and as usual it's pretty hard to put across on a web forum.

I'm not prepared to pick up arms either. I like my life too much. I guess that's my point. We all like our lives too much to risk them for something like this. On a personal note I'm more concerned about the weather being nice when I go on my holiday in December than the goings on in Iraq and Syria. It's just that I'm OK with admitting this to myself.

I really just think we need to learn the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan before making the same mistakes all over again.

 

Exactly. This and the fact that, last time I looked, these countries don't manufacture their own arms. European nations and the Americans churn out endless quantities of arms which we sell to other countries so that they can attack their neighbours and oppress their own people.

Our hands are far from clean in this whole thing.

 

Well I am keeping out of this now; I’ve had my two pence worth.

Besides I have to get my shit together to catch a train into London to meet a bunch of clients for drinks and dinner. And guess what……..one of the group, as far as I know is a Muslim.

Perhaps I should ask his point of view, and given that he is the only one who won’t be drinking alcohol there is a good chance it will be the only coherent and sensible answer I will hear all evening.

 

I'm not advocating anything,it's fight or die for anyone coming up against this IS. And it was starting to sound like I was some sort of coward sitting behind a keyboard. I put myself in harms way everyday at work looking after and caring for those who commit some awful crimes in this country. I know some would say give them bread and water and lock them up all day but I don't believe treating them like animals would do our society any good especially when they are released.
You were simply asking,I answered.

 

I didn't call you a coward. I simply stated that, just like me, you're not about to give up your comfy life to go die in a dusty wadi somewhere and that that being the case perhaps we shouldn't advocate putting others in harm's way.

Also. I would like to point something out. Infer from it what you will.

I was speaking to a customer of mine in Iraq a couple of weeks ago (we actually shipped some replacement parts to one of the refineries that's been taken over by IS), and when I asked him about IS and expressed concern for his safety he brushed it off and said something along the lines of, "Ah there's nothing to worry about. It's not near us and the amount of people involved is quite small"

That's coming from a guy living there. And yet the news media in this country has got everyone cr*pping themselves.

Fair enough when they're on the other side of the channel boarding boats to invade we should probably get pretty concerned but I think that the threat, at least as far as we're concerned, is minimal.

 

It's just people having a discussion about something important and you have to admit it makes a nice change from the 32nd "Which tyres" thread of the month

 

It also makes a big change from the yes or no debate going on up here.

 

Can't wait until that's over.

It's been totally blown out of proportion.

Have a vote. Make a decision. Majority wins.

 

We're getting a bit off topic but I agree with you mate,can't wait til it's over. Don't think we should be even having this referendum,SNP trying to tear the country apart.

 

What debate is that then?

 

Well, I have just got home and stippy toed into the house, result I haven't woken L, one last short one and then off to bed. I am glad you lot have kissed and made up.

Let's all now have a friendly debate on......should Scotland go it alone, or how about.....what tyres.....oh never mind I am to pissed and tired to even bother.