I recently had a nightmare with spongey front brakes on my RR5. The brakes were rubbish! I tried bleeding them at the calipers and even popped the caliper pistons out and cleaned the pistons thoroughly. Changed the brake fluid- still rubbish. Then like a donkey i realised that the master cylinder had a bleed nipple! Guess what? There was loads of air in the master cylinder. Bled it and the brakes are now 100% again. Happy days. Moral of this story-----Read the haynes manual instead of presuming we already know the answer.
Not long had my blade (09) so cannot really comment on spongy brakes but i have two mates who have 09 blades and they have both complained of sponginess despite repeated bleedings,does anyone know if this is a common problem ?
I dont think there is a problem with the stock brakes its just the way they feel, Honda as with many others want the front end to have a very user friendly feel that is good for all types of riders I have never know anyone say the brakes dont work but like people say they do feel spongy, as said lines dont help as they expand when the system is under presure steel lines fix that problem to a degree after that you need to change the master cyl, people again miss understand master cylinders as they think they often displace more fluid, its more a case that they have a more efficeint pivot point at the lever to piston this make it easy to apply load onto the piston giving more feel there is a long thread on here about understanding piston size, type and pivot point of radial master cylinders. There is nothing wrong with the OEM calipers and if your not happy with the brakes after new lines etc tgen you could look at pad and disc options however imo the oem pads and discs are more than up to the job for nearly all type of road and track use..
Hey guys I just purchased a 09 plate blade and only got out a short blast before this weather kicked in, I wasnt comfortable at all with the brakes as with feel, dont get me wrong they worked but didnt inspire confidence, I have Short leves fitted though im going to fit the standard levers back on as I found that made a difference with my old R1. I have had a shot of my mates 08 plate and they were also poor though he finds them to be ok, I guess its what your happy with........
They may feel 'spongy' to one or two folk but how many others are jumping on a band wagon? Im lucky enough to have ridden all the current crop of 1000's and i can tell you this, the blade is ONLY bested on brakes by the BMW, it even outstops the suppsedly amazing brembo shod rsv4. As arthur said, a manufacturer cant supply every bike with pin sharp lever that need one finger to haul it up, can you imagine a relative noob getting on one and thinking the brakes need as much grab as there 15 year old 600? oops!! If anyone is experiencing issues, empty the standard fluid out and replace it with Castrol SRF. then if your still having issues (which is highly doubtfull given the average speed a road rider is playing around at) replace the lines with a nice 3 line set (2 front 1 back) and get rid of the looped rubber hoses. I recomend HEL, but others are available.
The stock brakes on Fireblades are pretty awesome. As Craig says, probably only out done by the likes of the BMW. In terms of spongyness, more than likely there's going to be air in the system, lots of people get caught out by not bleeding the master cylinder, so I'd check that and then go from there. You would also benefit from fitting a set of braided lines, again as Craig says. Manufacturers, recommend changing the standard rubber lines after 3-4 years (varies from manufacturer) as the rubber degrades with the brake fluid etc. over time. This also causes spongy brake feeling, significantly under heavy hard braking. So a set of braided brake lines does help to eliminate this problem. For those interested in brake lines, I'm going to put together another group buy / forum deal on our (HEL) lines in the next day or two, so watch this space. Thanks Jonny
As there is not a problem mate, its all about feel... Here is some info Ive posted before:- There have been question's re masters before and I did post this info but will post it again for those that are interested:- Master Cyl's 19mm is the piston size, the 19x20 is the pivot point, you have the same power but different feel depending on where the pivot is for example easy to pull with lots of travel, hard to pull not so much travel.. Let me answer the part about braking power first. Changing your stock master cylinder to an aftermarket radial design will NOT give you more braking power to help you stop sooner. A radial master cylinder with a different piston diameter and/or lever fulcrum-to-piston distance will only change the feel of the brakes at the lever. So keep in mind that Ducati/Brembo chose a master cylinder size to give you the best modulation characteristics (feel, sensitivity and control) for your bike. Good modulation means good feedback to the rider during a stop. A good braking system needs to establish the closest linear relationship possible between the force applied to the brake lever and the actual deceleration of the bike. Stopping power is technically easy to achieve, but achieving it along with good proportional braking response is more difficult. This, I feel, is the major factor influencing braking quality. That’s not to say that the engineering department’s choice is best for all riders or riding conditions. The best choice for the track isn’t the best choice for the street. Different riders have different preferences and we’re all adaptable. A rider is able to compensate for one performance drawback to gain an advantage with another. But again, it's situational dependent; a braking system that gives repeated stops from 150mph with the force application of one finger is not necessarily optimum for a 40mph panic stop in traffic. Even though a rider is adaptive to a braking system's general behavior doesn't mean that in an emergency that he'll use a light one-finger pull to stop. So let’s move on to your choices. First, there’s a different master cylinder size requirement for single rotor systems than for dual rotor systems. A dual rotor set-up has a lot more caliper pistons to move so a larger volume of hydraulic fluid has to be moved by the master cylinder piston. Also, since different manufacture models have different size calipers and rotors you can’t always translate a recommended master cylinder size to another setup. A master cylinder size designation is written AAxBB where AA is the diameter of the piston in mm, BB is the fulcrum-to-piston distance in mm. The master cylinder piston diameter is chosen based on the number and size of the caliper pistons. A fulcrum-to-piston distance affects two things: the amount of force needed at the lever, and the distance that the lever needs to be pulled through (to displace and compress the same amount of hydraulic fluid which in turns forces the caliper pistons against the rotor discs) to yield the SAME stopping power. Single Disc The Brembo aftermarket radial 16mm diameter master cylinders offer you the choice of a brake lever fulcrum-to-piston distance of either 16mm or 18mm. The stock Brembo lever has a 16mm dimension. So your choice is either 16x16 or 16x18. From the geometry, a 18mm lever will need to be pulled a 11% shorter distance than a 16mm lever but will at the same time require more lever force than a 16mm to stop the same distance. Dual Disc The Brembo aftermarket radial 19mm diameter master cylinders offer you the choice of a brake lever fulcrum-to-piston distance of either 16mm, 18mm or 20mm. The stock lever is 16mm. So your choice is either 19x16, 19x18 or 19x20. 19x16 (stock) requires the least less lever effort but the longest pull distance. 19x18 requires 11% lighter pull and 11% longer pull distance than the 19x20 MC. More feel (better modulation characteristics) than the 19x20 19x20 requires the most lever force but the shortest pull. More like a trigger action. Some riders think that this short-pull trigger action means that they have "better" brakes, but they don't - at least not for all riding conditions. What they do get is the same braking power with poorer modulation (feel) characteristics. Good for the track perhaps, but often dangerous on the street, especially in the wet. In an emergency, most of us have the instinct to grab a brake hard. So if you value a better feel, when choosing between the 19x18 and the 19x20 for the street, go for the 19X18. Better still stay with Ducati’s choice, 19x16. On the other hand, some prefer their lever hard. So again, I'm not suggesting that every rider will have the same preference in a braking system's modulation characteristics. Depending on your preference (or need) you can have brakes with an initial vague feeling, a strong initial bite, or something in between. You can select pads that have better high temperature behavior. On a race bike you can select brake pad and rotor material that will survive a race without needing replacement, but on the street, materials need to be more durable and function under less severe braking conditions and more varied weather conditions. Master Cylinder Piston Diameter Selection Brembo makes 16mm diameter piston master cylinders for use with single caliper brakes and 19mm diameter for use with dual calipers. Why? To give the proper modulation characteristics at the lever. The different diameter MC pistons change the hydraulic relationship between the master cylinder and the caliper pistons. The hydraulic advantage is the total area of the caliper pistons divided by the area of the master cylinder. For example: The Brembo Goldline front caliper has four pistons. Two are 30mm diameter, two are 34mm. The Brembo Monoblock front caliper has four pistons. Two are 32mm diameter, two are 36mm. Case 1: A single Goldline actuated by a 16mm MC. 2(30 x 30 + 36 x 36) / (16 x 16) = 2(900 + 1296)/256 = 17 >13 Case 2: Dual Goldlines actuated by a 19mm MC. 4(30 x 30 + 36 x 36) / (19 x 19) = 4(2196)/361 = 27 < 24 > 23 (firm) Case 3: Dual Monoblocks actuated by a 19mm MC. 4(32 x 32 + 36 x 36) / (19 x 19) = 4(1024 + 1296)/361 = 27 < 26 > 23 It has been my experience that there is a "sweet spot" in the range. I like ratios in the 27:1 range-2 finger power brakes, feeling some line and/or caliper flex. 23:1 is at the other end of the spectrum-firm. Case 4: Dual Goldlines actuated by a 16mm MC. 4(30 x 30 + 36 x 36) / (16 x 16) = 4(2196)/256 = 34 > 27 (loose) Case 5: A single Goldline actuated by a 19mm MC. 2(30 x 30 + 36 x 36) / (19 x 19) = 2(900 + 1296)/361 = 12 < 23 NOT GOOD Ratios lower than 23:1 produce a lever feel so "wooden" as to have little, if any feel. Rubber OEM lines DO make the brakes less efficient as pressure is lost in the lines so good lines are a MUST.
I'm fine with the brakes on the 10, but I do think the 929's not great, well fr from it when comparing to the 10. I've got Hel lines, their bled properly. Was thinking of changing the MC for a Brembo unit, don't want to spend a fortune. Do the MC's from the R6/R1 fit? will the swap be easy and worth it? Cheers
