We are entering dangerous waters as far as democracy is concerned. Lets get this straight, for better or for worse the British public was offered a straight in/out option by Cameron, who will be judged very harshly in history and rightly so for creating this mess, the result was a majority to leave, forget which regions voted what way, you can massage figs any way you like, but the vote was to leave. There was no way as long as I have a hole in my a*se that the EU were going to negotiate anything over than a deal that punishes the UK as a warning shot to other countries with designs to leave. We have had 2 years of abject failure by a Tory party in open civil war, a labour party that is undetectable under the current Commie that is its head, and the rest........well they are just that , the rest, who suddenly see they have a chance to be heard and fight for their own agendas. The strangest party is the SNP, avid haters of the English, and would love to bring the Union down, and for what? To become 'independent' and stay in the EU, yes the very same EU that they will then give up their new found sovereignty to, and become controlled by a single entity that will be the United Sates of Europe if they get their way, not sure the Scottish public voting for independence really understand where that is leading them. Make no bones about it, Scotland should they break away, will become subservient puppets of the Franco-German machine, just like the remaining bitches in the EU. Decent Europeans are being taken on a mystery tour by 2 dominant countries and unelected bureaucrats with their 'project'. I am disgusted what I have seen in the last 12 hours from Tusk and Macron and now Ross, Tusk albeit not saying the exact words 'the only sensible option is too come back into the fold and stay in the EU', but the intent and meaning was there. Macron stating that the British in the event of no deal will have to accept no planes taking off and leaving their country, what a c*nt, can't even run his own country and tries to dictate and lie to us. Ross now suggesting border controls in Ireland......really? well at least that cat is out of the bag, and its not the UK suggesting any controls, project fear kicks into overdrive. Cutting us out of major areas like intelligence sharing and security, whilst they cooperate with many countries outside the EU right now, the b*stards just want to humiliate and punish us for having the balls to say enough is enough, we don't like the path you are taking to Federalism. The reality is that most European countries don't understand the British psyche, never have and never will, that's why we just don't fall in line and do as we are told. We never have under any colour of government ever since the French let us finally join the EEC, and remember how they held us out initially and refused our entry.......some payback for all we did for them. Even stupid issues like needing a IDP to drive in Europe, funny how we all travel across this globe and your driving license is good enough but the EU want to punish us......some partners they are turning out to be.....are the British public this gullible to buy this s*it? If we do not leave the EU either with a deal that does not tie our hands behind our backs or no deal, I forsee the rise of the right and very dangerous nationalistic tendencies appearing, akin to civil war if we are not careful, you only have to look back at the history of this nation to realise that. The last thing this nation needs is the rise of the right wing and separatism, no one voted leave for that. The only way to leave now is no deal...............yes the very deal that they are trying to dissuade us of, and why? On the EU side, it frees us up straight away and they don't get the divorce cheque, then have 2 issues, they have to replace our money and most countries cant afford it, so either the major nations stump up or they cut back on their spending plans and upset the basket cases on the fringes that rely on EU handouts. They are also acutely aware what will happen if we continue to grow and our economy is OK, and we can leverage deals from around the world that threaten the cosy internal EU arrangements of subsidies that keep costs artificially high for all consumers. Other EU countries will then be emboldened and potentially wonder if their own 'exits' would be worthwhile. They need to trade with us just as we need to trade with them, big business likes a cosy life without bumps in the road and have invested billions in just in time deliveries of all products to manufacturers all over Europe and this threatens their short term cost base and logistics, they will get over it in time but prefer not to have it at all. The bottom line is that the EU is a playground bully, and if you suddenly are not fitting in with the crowd then they will isolate you just like all bullies do to protect their own empires. Forget all this immigration stuff and no immigrants wanting to come here anymore out of fear, and not pick fruit or milk cows, the Biased Broadcasting Company or BBC for short has been producing a series of videos over the last 2 years and the latest ones feature Polish citizens stating they are either leaving, not coming anymore or thinking of leaving for one reason only................nope not Brexit, nope not British unfriendliness, just the simple reason the £ has fallen in value and they can earn the same at home as here, so its no longer worth coming here until the £ rises again...................don't believe me?, search the BBC videos. So I really hope we leave, and leave with our heads held up high, and take our chances just like most of the rest of the world do, only time will judge if we made the right decision or not, and we don't possess that crystal ball and never will. We are leaving the EU not Europe, yes the EU, an organisation no one voted to join and actually had no control over the fact we morphed into it, many seem to have lost sight of that.
Come on over, I need a competent employee for my office. I fired my assistant last Friday. Canadians are the root of all evil.
Nice one @Kentblade What about this? It’s clear no one other than those with their snouts in the trough give a toss. https//www.itpro.co.uk/digital-transformation/30234/uk-tech-industry-saw-record-investment-in-2017-despite-brexit We now just need to walk. No one voted for a sweet deal from the EU, the question was do you wish to stay or leave the EU? It’s about time we jumped.
and a bit more good news......you'd swear the elite have told the media to actually release the good news stories to raise sentiment in the event of a no deal! ....or is that just me? https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
That’s funny isn’t it, supposedly we don’t make anything, just rely the service industry, when the truth is different. So we have the 5th biggest economy in the world, with the 4 above us having larger populations, the 8th largest manufacturing base and rising, one of the world leaders in defence production, global powerhouse in financial services, but if we leave the EU we are going to be doomed and cast back into the dark ages...........go figure !
Well I haven't logged in for almost 12 months but when I read this posted by Ken I felt I had to. Ken, one of the best posts ive read by anyone on any forum in many many years and I have to say, I spend most my time discussing politics on another forum.. Well done mate...
Did anyone read this? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46918009 Very kind of them, but for fu*ks sake this is the issue in some EU countries and the biased sh*t their citizens get fed by the EU Ministry of Disinformation. We are trying to leave the EU, not planet earth, we will still be the same rock in the Nortn Sea, still the same Masters of Disasters as my German friends have always enjoyed telling me for the last 40 years, they will still be able to show so Germanic humour and order their rare steaks ‘English’ as they do then burst out laughing, just can’t believe they think the good ship Great Britain is going to up anchor and the rock drifts away and falls off the edge of the planet. I will say though I did panic buy in the COOP last night and bought 6 bottles of Weissbier instead of my normal 3, just in case ..........
Read half of it before my head exploded with its patronising bollox ...the long and short of it is they're all petrified we're going to escape, which could open the creaking floodgates & leave them with bigger bills to pick up. You've got me thinking now mind if I should check where my spam fritters come from...and do a similar stock up
I just hope and pray that TM does not remove a No-deal from the table as that is about all we have to look forward to with Brexit!
Just incase there are those that think Brexit can be reversed and everything can go back to the way it was, the EU constantly looks for ever closer union, its evolving ever day and will continue to do so.. Jean-Claude Juncker has confirmed the EU will pursue a policy of ever-continuing expansion, create its own army, and force constituent countries to open their borders and join the beleaguered Euro in an speech which will only serve to confirm the decision of every Brexit voter. In his ‘State of the Union’ address to the European Parliament this morning, Juncker restated the EU’s commitment to an expansionist set of policies to further erode the sovereignty of member states; a platform which Remainers will find difficult to explain away. He explicitly re-stated his ambition to see the European Union continue to expand:“We must maintain a credible enlargement perspective for the Western Balkans… the European Union will be greater than 27 in number.” On immigration and free movement, Juncker said the Schengen passport-less area would be extended “immediately”to Bulgaria and Romania:“If we want to strengthen the protection of our external borders, then we need to open the Schengen area of free movement to Bulgaria and Romania immediately. We should also allow Croatia to become a full Schengen member once it meets all the criteria.” He confirmed that the EU will create a ‘European Defence Union’ by 2025 – that is, an EU army:“And I want us to dedicate further efforts to defence matters. A new European Defence Fund is in the offing. As is a Permanent Structured Cooperation in the area of defence. By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European Defence Union. We need it. And NATO wants it.” On the Euro, Juncker pushed towards compulsory membership for member states:“The euro is meant to be the single currency of the European Union as a whole. All but two of our Member States are required and entitled to join the euro once they fulfil all conditions. Member States that want to join the euro must be able to do so. This is why I am proposing to create a Euro-accession Instrument, offering technical and even financial assistance.” And he called for a single European president (merging his job with Donald Tusk’s) and an end to national vetoes. He then amusingly went on to say Britain will “regret” Brexit. Remainers wondering why the polls haven’t swung back their way should watch Juncker’s speech this morning…
I don't normally do politics online but there are some excellent posts in here, especially @Kentblade missive above. I am so fed up if all the BS and media bias on this that I have actually changed my viewing habits, and where possible will take my money elsewhere. Why some jumped up journalist/broadcaster believes that we should listen their views and opinions dressed up as news is beyond me. There now seems to be an acceptance that people don't have to listen to democratic choices if those choices are not why that individual wanted. When they show the Irish border they constantly show the remainer signs stating tyat we should respect their vote. So their vote which was in the minority must be respected over that of the majority? Do they not understand how democracy works? It can't be that difficult to comprehend that people cast a vote and the option with the most votes wins. The referendum vote was a ssimple yes/no so there can't even be complaints about boundries, seats etc. Just because your town/city voted to remain makes no difference, more people voted to leave. Any attempt at a second referendum will lead to a total disenfranchisement of 17 million people, and will very likely lead to civil disobedience and violence. From that day on any vote will become meaningless. I never voted for Tony Bliar but put up with him and his cronies being in power for a decade. I didn't demand another election everytime they won, I didn't go to the courts to try and force a change, I sucked it up and got on with life until such time as they were kicked out in an election that was held when their term ended. If the remainers want a second bite of the cherry then they should form a party and stand on a manifesto of rejoining the EU. If they do that and win then so be it, but for me I have had enough of the EU with their unelected officials who have been kicked out of their Country's political structure deciding what does and does not happen in Europe. The fact that the EU is so worried about others following our lead speaks volumes to me. This isn't something that they can ignore. It's not a problem like Lisbon where they just changed the name from Treaty to Accord to deprive people of a vote. This is something that they have to deal with and not be the bully boy they have grown in to.
Oh boy, this guy is both a danger to democracy and safety, his constant threats will embolden those who use guns to think again about their tactics, FFS someone needs to calm him down and clamp his mouth up. And as far as the comments about being victimised...PMSL https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46998533
Just project fear ramping up again, seen lots of it lately. Have to admit the idea of Ireland being able to effectively patrol the border is amusing considering their ineffectiveness during the troubles.
Jesus you lot, you give me the shits. Every member of the European council was elected. Just like every member of westminster was elected. Just because you didn't vote for everyone one of them doesn't make that fact anything other than true. 90% of you didn't vote for Teresa May or Jeremy Corbin either. But you're letting both of them spout the same nonsense that Farage and Johnson spout. Stop saying that the EU is run by the unelected. It's false, disingenuous and just plain wrong. The biggest danger to democracy is allowing the barely 30% of the population decide that the other 70% can't keep their EU citizenship because of their racist and xenophobic tendencies. Accomplished with the aid of a bunch of psychopathic money men who moved they cash straight out of London to Dublin & Frankfurt as soon as they could. Leaving the EU is not democracy, it's mob rule by a bunch of twats who believed the lies that the UK still has an empire and something others want. You do realise that brexit was bought and paid for by the US and Russia right? You're being led by the nose, by people who want to own you. Not simply live with you and make rules for us to all get along. They literally want to own you. If you think it's so wonderful, go work for the US federal govt for a bit. Those free weeks you'd be working over the last month will be greatly appreciate by them I'm sure. The EU isn't 'punishing' you for leaving. It's simply not allowing you to keep the benefits of EU membership without the obligations. The only reason most of you hate the EU is because it isn't run from Westminster. It's amazing how important the Union that's run from Westminster is, yet the union that's run from Brussels isn't. And as for no second referendum, you do realise it'll be the 3rd one right? The first said the Uk would stay in the EU. You had it in the 70's. Exactly why is that result allowed to be overturned yet the lies, bullshit and criminal activity that bought the last one can't be? Oh wait... That'd be the ruled from Westminster bit again right?
Sorry but classing everyone who voted leave as a racist or xenophobe is total bollocks and a classic case of thowing teddy in the corner. It is a tactic used by the remainers in the same way as they tried claiming it was the lower social classes and less educated that voted to leave because they were too simple or uninformed to understand globalisation. Democracy is simple, the majority who vote decide the winner, in this case 17 million say leave and that was more than said stay. If people want another referendum then they should vote at a General Election for the party that says they will offer you one, or even say that they will take the UK back in to the EU. If the EU was a Democracy the Lisbon Treaty, sorry the Lisbon Accord, would not have been enacted. When put to the vote in several countries, Denmark and Eire are 2 that spring to mind, it was rejected and so they simply renamed it as an Accord as that didn't need a vote. If you remember Tony Bliar promised us a vote on it but then backtracked when it was renamed. If someone in the UK is that concerned about not being part of the EU then what is stopping them from moving, after all isn't that part of the benefits of being in the EU? I'm not sure what the EU have said but as the UK is granting EU citizens the right to stay in the UK I expect the EU will reciprocate. I am not saying if you don't like it then leave, I am saying that if you think it is better then there are other options. As for the US and Russia driving Brexit I think you forgot to include the Chinese, the Illuminati, and Aliens. If those who voted leave were so susceptible to contol how come the Remain camp with all it's official and civil service backing were unable to exert enough influence? The EU does not want to offer us a good deal, after all once we leave we will just be another country to them and so they want to get the best deal for the EU, and at the same time I believe they want to disuade other countries from leaving. By the same extent we must be willing to leave with no deal as otherwise that weakens our bargaining position. Yes I realise that no deal could/will cause difficulties but I also believe that sometimes the right thing isn't always the easy thing. Ignoring the majority that voted leave would set a dangerous precedent. What next, a party refuses to accept an election result? What if a large number of people refuse to pay taxes because they didn't vote for the party in power? And yes being ruled from Westminster is important to me. Sorry if you find that odd or strange, but then I find the President of the EC being an appointment rather than an elected office strange.
I've stayed fairly quiet on this topic, but just want to put one thing out there. Yes I agree it's the democratic thing to do, however it was only an advisory referendum and not a democratic one. AFAIK. One other point is that we vote every 4 years if we don't like how the current government is run. It's nearly been 3 whole years since the referendum. One final vote to say "Do you really want this?" after all of the lies have been exposed (From both sides) can't hurt anyone surely? Not looking for an argument here just putting my two pence in.
