Thought I'd take the bike down to the local bike shop that's got a dyno as a bit of a health check. I had noticed at Snetterton that I was being mugged off on the straights and wasn't sure if my corner exit and gear selection was really that bad or not... Plan was to do a run with the baffle in, and baffle out, and then maybe see if my map needs tweaking. Bike is an RR6 with a Yoshi GP Force can, PC3, running the Yoshi GP Force map from the Power Commander website. So should all in theory be bang on. The guy does 3 runs. Red, green and blue on the graph. Maxing out at 103.6hp at the wheel No wonder that massive KTM GT ate me for breakfast on the back straight. Fuelling seems to be waaaay out. Massively rich. Look at the dotted red/blue/green lines on the chart. AFR totally flatlined off the bottom of the chart. Hmm I think. The bike came with the Power Commander 'stock' map on it, which is much leaner (-15% ish at full throttle/high revs, vs +20%ish at full throttle/high revs on the Yoshi map). So lets stick that map back on. Three more runs. The first is aborted as the mixture pipe fell out of the exhaust (but had made 120+hp at that time). Second two are mauve and black on the chart. Mauve topped out at 117.7hp. So much better, but still terrible. AFR for the mauve run is dropping down to 10.5 at peak power. So still massively rich. At this point it's clear this isn't a map issue, it's something else - logically, either: a) Injectors spunking more than they should (unlikely) b) Not enough air. Clogged air filter. Stuck flaps? Has anyone else experienced this? (I have no idea when air filter was last changed). Any recommendations on air filters for RR6? HiFlo, or spend the extra on K&N? Is it a bastard to get in there and change? The dyno guy was also talking about mods to the flaps too (I think). Any experience of that? Or is there something else worth checking first? All advice and wisdom hugely appreciated!
Does the bike still have the cat in it? Decat would be my first thing and as you have mentioned k&n filter, not a pain to fit, there are others but the more air they let through the chance the more grit and crap also. Do a search on the flapper mod as loads did it back in the day. Checked the rad for damage?
Rad seems fine, couple of slightly bent fins but nothing major and no leaks. Re the cat - I don't think it's got one - here's a couple of pics of where I believe it should be, and there doesn't seem to be anything beyond general pipe-age? Flapper mod sounds fun but that's a cherry on the cake thing - I just want to get the bike back up into the right ballpark. 30-40bhp is a lot to be down through air filter alone - that's what concerns me
I know what you mean mate I was the same last year. How’s the bike running? Have you thought it could be a very conservative dyno? I had a general map from dyno jet and my bike made 154 bhp so down 20 and running like crap.
Yes - it's a Fuchs dyno so no idea how that compares with Dynojet - the guy running it did say that as a Blade it ought to be putting out 150+ which suggests he sees blades doing that (on that dyno) regularly enough. Bike was actually running pretty sweetly on that super super rich map, although my only comparison was on a quick test ride months ago on another RR7 when it was wet, so hard to say how close they were. I'm off to Bedford on Monday so should get a better idea then for how it feels through the rev range.
Should it be visible in those pics I put up? I thought it was supposedly an eight inch long box behind the RHS foot peg? Unsure whether the PO on mine removed it or not, but hard to know when I don't have another one to compare it to!
The cat is behind the heat shield at the bottom It's in the vertical section of the pipe ,looks like a swelling in the pipe about 3 inch long To remove them its a cut out n weld job You weren't far off in your pic from under the bike
If it's a 3 inch swelling behind the shield, then yes I have one... Could this be part of the problem? Has it disintegrated in there and turned to concrete or something?
Check air duckting and filters , easy job Then while you have the tank up, check fuel lines and tank breather but becareful not to nip the fuel line when lowering the tank back , this is just a 15 min job , as for the cat you have to split the exaust to see inside. I not heard of any cat problems on the forum
Sorry, had to quote that bit. Looking at that graph it screams flow restriction to me. Struggling at the top end and going rich.
is it a restricted blade? that is i mean imported from either europe or usa. i cant remember which, but my mate had it on his 03 R1. required new throttle bodies to de restrict. just a thought
Interesting thought - is there a chassis code that tells you which market it was made for? I know with Porsche’s there’s a C16 code you look out for to tell you it’s a UK model.
The first character in a VIN may be either a letter or number and tells you the geographic area of origin, but not the market it was made for. This is the 'J' as the first character on all our VINs. This is where the car was actually made, and it may be different from where the manufacturer is located. A – H means Africa J – R (except O and Q) means Asia S – Z means Europe 1 – 5 means North America 6 or 7 means New Zealand or Australia 8 or 9 is for South America
I've got a RR7 and it's been remapped, not same as OP because it was the ECU fuel tables that were changed rather than a piggy back device, like a PC, but I asked if the Cat would be an issue and he said they can block when a bike is run richer but he's never noticed the 04-07 Blades suffering. If it's not the Cat, and you've no exhaust valve anymore, then I'd guess it's just too much fuel rather than restricted flow. Could it be the fuel rail pressure? I think there's a PCV controlling pump head and if it ran the rail too high the injectors would flow more/pulse. Hope this helps.
I've had my RR4 on the dyno at http://www.roadandraceperformance.co.uk/dyno.aspx and a remap made a world of difference. Therefore, I might be naive, but wouldn't any performance inhibitors such as filters etc, show up on diagnostics or from the tech's knowledge? Seems to me that if we pay for a dyno to map/improve performance, the operator should have sufficient knowledge to identify any problem. Am I being too 'black and white' on this?
Certain french and American models were limted to 100bhp using the ecu, might be worth a try to find another ecu and swop them over to see if that cures the problem
No, I don't think you're being too black and white Nigel - my local dyno guy didn't speak that much english and to be honest I'd have expected slightly more insight than I got. Anyway - today's update... Opened the bike up, kind of hoping to see a super clogged pair of old filters - and nope, the bike already has K&N, and they look fine - barely even worth cleaning. You can still see light through them. Ducts are all clear too. Bike appears to be a european one from the code on the ECU (ED) - I'd be surprised if it was a random French one but then I guess it is a possibility. So here are the current possibilities: 1) Airflow is fine, bike is running too rich from fuel rail pressure or similar, as per @auag 2) I've got a rogue flapper mod that's SHUTTING the flaps past 6000rpm instead of opening them. As per the pic they're open with the engine off. Not sure what the vacuum does in terms of default operation - close them, or open them? 3) The dyno is telling fibs. But the odds of it drawing an AFR line like that, as well as reading low power are a double coincidence. Any thoughts?
