Really a question for MY17 and onwards owners - but what power mode do you ride in? I rode around in Power mode 1 as I always wanted FULL beans. However I had to get new tyres fitted and it rained like 8uggery on the day. So new tyres on a wet road made for uncomfortable riding so I decided to drop it down to power mode 5. Got home safely and next day went out for a proper ride to scrub tyres in. Left it in power mode 5 and I have to say I prefer it over power mode 1. Noticeably smoother and a lot less jerky and snatchy. Didn't notice any loss in power in mode 5. Will gradually start to increase the power modes thru 4,3,2 to see what the others give.
1 for me. There seems little difference on dry roads between town riding and country riding. My bike is hydrophobic - never seen a wet road.
The reason P1 feels snatchy, is you are dealing with full power in the higher rev ranges and the Fly By Wire is delivering a sharp relatively instantaneous 1:1 of your throttle input. Fly By Wire has no free play - it is direct. Visualization of the power modes, which are achieved through controlling the throttle body blades ETV independently of your throttle grip position TPS at various RPMs Note throttle position vs throttle body blade position vs RPM - and even see how some gears have a throttle blade cap ETV less than 100$ all the way to red line. Power Mode 5 is actually heavily limited in Gear 1 through 4, with only 5 and 6 having full power on tap. Basemodel, ABS & SP1 Power Modes - each animation is Gear 1 through 6. Power Mode 1 Power Mode 2 Power Mode 3 Power Mode 4 Power Mode 5
And the even more discrete SP2 power modes. For the SP2 you will see that P4 & 5 are actually intended to be pukka damp and rain modes with a much smoother and gentler ramp up in power deliver at full throttle - and the P2 though P5 also have a feathered power delivery in the mid range to facilitate a smoother power ramp up out of lower rpm corners. SP2 Power Modes - each animation is Gear 1 through 6. Power Mode 1 Power Mode 2 Power Mode 3 Power Mode 4 Power Mode 5
Great supply of information, @RC45 . I just wish I had the ability to understand it. The basic 'dyno' charts I'm fine with, but with these what appear to be millisecond by millisecond info just stump me. Anyone else the same, or am I dumber than I thought?
It looks to be showing the Electronic Throttle Valve (ETV) positioning, at different Throttle positions, in different power modes. Each jump of the gif is a new gear, from 1-6. I didn't think it was as restrictive as they were, some really interesting graph readouts.
Great info tks RC45. I wasn't aware the SP2 was running different maps to the SP1 or stock blade - I suppose different valve size and cylinder head configuration would dictate. Please share the info source. I'd be interested to look at the fulling maps or F:ARs vs ETV-RPM/gear for the Euro setups
These are from Euro/UK ECUs. Source is screen shots from each map in 3D view for each stock ECU loaded into Woolich software.
And of course that makes perfect sense. Of greater interest and importance, Honda does not divulge or publish in its 2017 - 18 Supersport brochure the 'Max Power Output' and the Max Torque' despite including those figures for the other 7 sports bikes in the brochure. I spoke to Honda UK querying this, and after consultation with their 'technical department' I was told the figures are exactly the same as the SP (not the misnamed SP1). Sure, power and torque are dependant on more than valves, head mods, and forged pistons, BUT logic suggests that if the bike is flowing more fuel through the combustion process (despite the compression ratio being the same) there should be an equivalent increase in power. Of course we are told that extra power will be available with cams and HRC kit, of which @RC45 is intimately familiar with, but to me it smacks of Honda holding back or disguising figures for fear of letting out 'classified'?? information. Would be grateful for your learned view RC.
Honda published SP2 power numbers in 2017. Same as base model/SP - 189bhp. When I got the service manual in 2017 it was easy to see how they achieved this. The SP2 stock cams are milder than the base/SP cams. In fact the base/SP cams are very similar to the $2500 each HRC cams. And the SP2 HRC cam specs where published and in the HRC setup manul from January 2017 - so any act that Honda UK put on "looking and researching" was just that an act - Honda UK are literally as clueless as the rest of us - which is why the Honda UK Racing guys had to work with Ten Kate and Honda Europe all the time. Honda Japan/HRC always keeps everyone in the dark - its like a game they like to play. This is how early SP2s where "race kitted" before the HRC parts became available - many race SP2s ran stock base/SP cams and the power bumps from 189 to close to 200. To this day many privateer SP2 race bikes still run stock base/SP cams or Cosworth grinds that are similar spec The bottom line is Honda are jerks and the entire SC77 program is a cluster. The SP2 is sold as a street bike that is never going to be supported on track by Honda as well as the Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW, Ducatis, Aprilia and Suzuki superbike contenders are. With the Honda none of the electronics we paid for on the SP2 (or SP or base model) can be properly calibrated and used on-track - all the other manufacturers actually have race/track modes right in the menus and you can safely change tyres/sprockets and turn features (including electronic suspension/ABS) on and off for track use - with the Honda we have to chuck away all stock electrics and buy all new HRC bits. We had a 2014 BMW S1000RR on the dyno yesterday - 180rwhp stock, added Akropovic exhaust, Sprint air filter, filled the tank with race fuel, put the bike in Race Mode and flashed the ECU with a Brent Tune canned tune. Bike put 194hp to the wheel the very next run. Now that is how a dual use street/track bike should behave from the factory.
Mode 2 on A twisty roads and mode 1 when warmer and if I can stand the harder suspension settings it really firms up mode 2 also as TC on 5 so good to have a safety net on our crap roads,,,,when new tyres go on no doubt will scrub them in mode 3 individual modes don't bother with as then fixed and it stops adjusting as it reading the road surface...
Power levels are only related to suspension & traction management as far they can be part of a preselected group of settings - but the relationship between the various systems ends there. And don't forget, if you change sprockets or tyre sizes you really should not rely on the ABS, Traction Control or Wheelie Control coming to your aid at the right time on the crappy public roads - these systems are simply never going to know the actual wheel speeds since there is no calibration mechanism in our bikes to account for tyre and sprocket changes The Ohlins SCU will continue to do a damn good job and keep adjusting rebound and damping according to the presets and measured IMU data it receives. I guess maintaining full lean and complete tyre contact patch due to superior suspension behaviour just before the bike high sides the rider when it fails to detect wheel spin is better than nothing LOL
So if Honda have junked the stock or SP grind for a milder cam for the SP2 with larger valves, it begs the rhetorical - was this a marketing ploy to match the power of the SP (curiously the Honda Service Manual refers to the S1 and S2) or to meet global emissions regulations for the street? However it seems that particularly the SP2 has been designed for tuneability with or without the support of Honda. What has happened to the 2 race kits that Honda promised at the launch of the SP2? Interesting article in MCN of 1 May "The Road to a Racer" on the tuning of the current Blade. They claim that the SP2 with blueprinting, "stock" cam - I bet exactly that from the standard Blade from RC45's comment, Akra pipe, e-suspension + ABS junking, hardware fettling and electronics upgrade they get 207 bhp and a weight down to 174kg. For the BSB they claim 230+hp and 168kg.
I think it was a way to make the SP/SP2 the same power. Noise emissions and pollution emissions needs of different markets seem to be met by way of tuning. And if the street SP2 made all that extra power, it would make the small power increase from any HRC kit mods look bad. And we know Honda hates to look bad The SP2 - which in reality is only an ECU, wheels and cylinder head different to the SP - is really as poorly suited to tunability as any of the SC77 Blades. This is why even the Superstock SP2s in the Irish Roads series all run the HRC ECU - the moment you change the tyres/sprockest you loose the ability to use all the TC/WC electronics in the stock EU you have paid for. It seems Honda got cold feet way back in November 2016 but in typical corporate dishonesty fashion they kept up the lie to boost sales. The reality is that after December 2016 they had no intention of "gentleman's racer" kit ECU to allow you to take your SP2 to the track, select the Race Kit menu and calibrate the bike for race tyres, do some club racing then swap back to the street and ride home. All they ever released was the Full (and even that is a misnomer, many pieces never left the HRC truck which is why Ten Kate had to reinvent so many wheels) SP2 Race Kit. This kit requires you to lose all the street electronics (in other words all pieces that make the street SP2 cost so much) are thrown in the bin so you can use the SP2 Race Kit. The SP2 is only a cylinder head. This is exactly what Ten Kate shared with me (and I relayed to the other SP2 owners) in August of 2017. MCN are really just cashing in on regurgitating 2 year old info ****** *edit* ****** How are MCN using this tuned bike? As a race bike or a street bike? If they are running an HRC ECU they have then lost all street functions unless they have managed to hack the stock SP2 ECU to calibrate for other tyres and sprockets. Is this article available online to read? 2017 is when I learned that the SP2 I had bought and was still waiting on delivery for would be impossible to tune/upgrade without completely redoing. The HRC kit was intended to be used with the SP2 Race Base bike HRC was selling. This is why Honda always said "The SP2 will only be for race teams". What they really meant was "the only way we can sell 500 copies of this cylinder head to the general public is by packaging it with non-race worthy parts that race teams will toss out and raising the price and calling it Limited Edition SP2 - then for everyone else that wants to race they can buy the Race Base - but we wont bother tellign anyone about the Race Base until AFTER the street sucker SP2 goes on sale". SP2 Race Base - not brakes, suspension, wheels - all base model components
Thanks a tonne mate I see its the same stuff as on the Youtube video. I am just wondering how they get the 207bhp (presuming they mean wheel hp) even if their dyno is a little optimistic - say the 179bhp stock i s really 175bhp... which is still high for a 189hp rated engine. Then their 207 might be 205 - still high for using stock SP2 cams. That's 27 extra ponies only from exhaust, intake and tuning - as I understand Superstock doesn't allow cam changes - maybe they allow head porting. But then again I know Ten Kate did a killer tune on the HRC ECU, so I may just be in for a real surprise when I finally hook the Ten Kate tuned HRC ECU up to my stock engine
