If I can add my two penneth? 'Filtering' carries inherent risks, and those risks are deemed to be understood & accepted by the filterer. If you get knocked off when 'legally' filtering, some of the blame always lies with you. Even if a car driver decides to do a surprise U turn, you'll still have a fight on your hands. If you happen to be filtering on those longer white lines that indicate a junction or potential hazard & get knocked off, you're f*cked, my friend. If you're filtering on solid lines & get knocked off, the best you can hope for is survival! You'll get bugger all else in the way of satisfaction or proper justice. We need to be clear that even if we've got the right of way, we'll still come off way worse in the event. What I'm saying is, cross those solid lines at your peril!
Sorry to say this, but much of what you say is now a very inaccurate statement. Go back 6 or 7 years I would have totally agreed with you as most defendant insurers were using Powell v Moody (1966) as their statutory defence, but things have changed drastically in the past few years. Filtering cases have to be judged on the evidence, as per the instruction from the High court which was sent to all of us involved in dealing with motorcycle crashed involving filtering and these days, in 99% of cases, liability is found in favour of the filtering rider. There is the option of counter claiming for contributory negligence, but the counter claim has to be sound and substantiated, and the High court has said that filtering is overtaking which is legal providing certain conditions are complied with, so even filtering on a solid white line system, it is unlikely that the rider would be held liable unless.......The rider was of course straddling or crossed over the solid centre white line, and even then the degree of contributory negligence would be unlikely to exceed 25% at worst. In most cases there would be no contrib deductions. As far as a prosecution is concerned? Again unlikely depending on the circumstances and the evidence. It has been something like 10 years since I was last involved in a filtering case where the rider was held fully liable. Those that do tend to get hit for liability and contrib are those that tend to filter past vehicles on the approach to a junction on their right which is a no no. But the drivers turning out of junctions on the left, between gaps in queuing traffic and carrying out U turns have a statutory duty of care and the primary liability is absolute as the courts have made it clear that drivers are obliged to consider the possibility of motorcycles filtering.
Agree with @T.C from the legal standpoint, but also accept @Black & White 's points that from the 'physical' standpoint we will invariably come off second-best. Because these are more often than not (in my opinion) low speed 'accidents' they might not result in a report to police or insurance claim, notwithstanding legalities of exchanging name & addresses etc.
this is pretty much what i was hoping to do, start a discussion about it. I havent done any today, because i thought the benefit wasnt worth the risk, i dont need to get to the front every time, beacause i can overtake a few moments later. Tinsley roundabout is a mad house any time of the day, if anyone uses it?
Nearly got cleaned up the other day 100 yards from home overtaking a line of stationary cars didn't see one turning right. ( schoolboy error ) Thankfully having a Racefit this saved me, driver looked twice as heard the exhaust, Lesson learnt concentrate until home. But it does show loud exhausts are a safety feature
this is pretty much what i was hoping to do, start a discussion about it. I havent done any today, because i thought the benefit wasnt worth the risk, i dont need to get to the front every time, beacause i can overtake a few moments later. Tinsley roundabout is a mad house any time of the day, if anyone uses it? Im proper careful when there is a junction on either side. Blind spots is my next downfall i reckon
I'm more than happy to stand corrected chap & appreciate your knowledge. I based my statement from a risk reduction point of view (no amount of 'I was in the right' or 'I didn't do anything illegal' will get your legs or your life back) & also on my recent experience. I was filtering in slow moving traffic on the M25 on a 4 lane stretch between junctions 28 & 29. I was moving into lane 3 alongside a car in lane 4. This car driver saw the traffic in lane 3 was moving faster, so went for the gap when he was alongside me. He hit me hard enough with his passenger front door to make me slide down the road on my right hand side. Literally swept my wheels from under me. There was other moving traffic in lane two, so I was not interested in that escape where I might collide with another car (It was a actually a truck that stopped in lane 2 when this happened). My solicitor (Fletchers), who claim to be biking experts, strongly recommended I accept a 50/50 claim. I have refused to accept any blame, so it's still ongoing. This happened in May 2019. Regarding solid white lines, I personally read those as 'do not cross unless absolutely necessary' and also, 'do not overtake' whether you cross them or not. For me, that's a self preservation interpretation. The solid lines are always on hazardous stretches of road. Car door mirrors frequently get wiped out by oncoming vehicles. If you're in between the two, 'legal' or otherwise..... On roadcraft, (sorry if I'm rambling & perhaps stating the bleedin' obvious!) I take a Sherlock Holmes point of view in that, once you remove the impossible anything else is possible. For example, if there's a T junction ahead & you're filtering, is it possible that a car may emerge? The answer is yes.
As soon as you mentioned Fletchers , (Motorcycle specialists? yeah right. Many if not all say that) all became clear and you are right to decline a spit liability decision. Don't expect any movement from them anytime soon. The vehicle in lane 4 that moved into lane 3 has a statutory duty of care to ensure that it is safe to change lanes and has a responsibility for the care of others that may be in that lane. Some law firms will and do use the argument that the rider should not be in affect "Undertaking" or should have eased off in anticipation of a vehicle moving from one lane to another. Total rubbish on both counts. Undertaking has not been illegal since pre 1972, and it is not for you to anticipate traffic changing lane, but for the defendant driver to plan and await a suitable gap in the traffic before changing position. There is certainly sufficient evidence based on what you have said here that the defendant driver could and maybe should have been reported for at least careless driving. You are right in that every decision about whether to filter has to be risk assessed as the old saying goes, the bike can be repaired or replaced, your skin is a darn sight more difficult to put right. Do not settle your case too quickly. Your firm has a reputation for settling quickly and undervaluing cases, and once settled you cannot go back and ask for more further down the line if problems persist. Unless you sustained serious injury, it is a bit too late to change law firms (which can be done without cost to you) as you will probably be on a low value fast track path, but if you still have ongoing issues, then you may wish to consider going elsewhere as you are not obliged to remain with any firm and you are not obligated to use law firms (called panel firms) instructed by your insurers.
@T.C. Thank you, and I thank you very much for taking the time & trouble to give your knowledge & experience. I didn't get onto this thread to whine. I really just wanted to warn others of potential problems. Having said that.... I could happily go on (and I will now, if anyone can be arsed to read) with the fact that immediately prior to my collision I'd just let another biker through who was travelling faster than me, (I'd spotted him & gestured for him to overtake me) so, in my mind, the car driver should have been alerted, or at least reminded, that there are motorcycles around... I was obviously aware of my surroundings to be able to concentrate on traffic in front as well as behind. The road was wet, so I knew that tyre grip was reduced, hence my reluctance to steer out of the way of the car that hit me. Given all of this, I absolutely refuse to accept any liability. I had considered pursuing a careless or without due care and attention report, but felt that would just be vindictive or bloody minded. In hindsight, and given their 50/50 offer, I should have just steamed in. As it stands I lost my job due to absence caused by this. The moral of the story here friends - don't get knocked off. If it's your own fault, you deal with it. Someone does it to you? It's a right pain.
As a slight deviation to topic, how do people feel about filtering on the way up to a red light? Much of my riding is in and around London, and it's a battle out there. There'll be a static queue between two lanes of traffic in your direction waiting at a red light. If you know the light is red for 10 seconds or more, you can get to the front. If it turns green in 5 seconds, you're caught somewhere horrible and look like a dick. Especially if your manoeuvre involves changing which lane gap you're going through and paddling your bike between cars. So you're always faced with the question - gamble on the red, or just queue up with everyone else? I tend to gamble on the red, and 8 times out of 10 you make it to the front. But the feeling those 2 times out of 10 where the light goes green at the worst possible time makes you feel a right knob. Anyone else experienced this conundrum?
Given the additional information you have provided, in my humble opinion you have made your case even stronger because as you rightly say the driver should mhave been aware of motorcyclists be in the close vicinity. Did you include this in you evidence? If you don't mind me asking, on what grounds are Fletchers suggesing that you should accept a 50/50 split liability? Did the Police attend? What was their view? PS.. Driving without due care and attention is careless driving, it is just one of the subsections of section 3. The other element is driving without reasonable consideration for other road users, such as centre lane hogging. Again if you don't mind me asking (and please feel free to decline to answer) can I ask what your injuries were thta caused youir prolonged abscence and subsequently the loss of your job? These are all elements (especially your job loss) which can be claimed for under the heading of special damages along with all other out of pocket expenses, damage and loss of amenity.
Hiya mate. @dmc12. For me it's about when the lights change & the timing. Sorry to sound obvious, but if they've just gone red, you've got an entire phase with which to get to the front. If you're not familiar with the pattern, don't frickin risk it. Wait! Wait until you know for sure!
Hi B&W Yes - agreed it's easy if you see them turn red, but in London the whole place is traffic lights so you're always coming up on patterns you don't know and lights that are already red. So you gotta roll dem dice!
@T.C. I thank you for your interest in this, and I am very interested in your point of view. I am more than happy to answer & have nothing to hide. I'm really struggling to accept any blame. Yes. I made all of this clear, regarding the other motorcyclist, to Fletchers. I think they want a speedy conclusion & haven't really got my interests at heart. I am beginning to get disillusioned with them. Fletchers have said pretty much as I said in my previous posts here on this site. "Filtering, on your own head" kind of thing. The police did attend but, seeing there was no traffic hold-up, quickly fucked off without asking any questions. I'm kind of glad because I was high on crack & ketamine at the time. Just kidding. Injuries? Not major, to be honest. If I were a footballer, then yes. Life changing injuries. I'm a man though. Got my right leg rammed into by a car that swept me off my bike & caused me to slide down the road on my leg, wrist, bike, hip, ribs. Not a biggy. Took a couple of days off but was booked on an expensive course. Didn't want to let the boss down & cause expense. Attended in tears! Hahaha! What a soldier! I took a couple of days off afterwards for Dr. appointments & sorting hire bike. Got the sack for untidy classroom/taking a personal call/folders not where they should be.
Yep, but not in London. As agreed, we try to pace the light sequence but there are the occasions where we fail. Perhaps because I am NOT in London, I receive a fairer go from the motorist who will let me back into the traffic flow. At least when wearing a helmet, the egg on our face doesn't show.
@Black & White , thank you for your response. I thought you might be happy to, but always better to ask first You are right in your assumption that your current solicitors just want you off their hands. Are your fees being covered under a legal expenses policy (LEI) may I ask. If you are on an LEI policy, they will get paid regardless of the result and so as you rightly point out they want you off their hands so that they will get paid...... Their attitude is also one I have heard many times before from riders who have been lumbered with them. They have neither the understanding of the dynamics of riding, the interest in riders well being or the expertise (despite their claims) in looking after riders. (To be honest, they are one of a number of panel law firms who have this reputation because they do not have to work for their money and do not care about their level of expertise as they get paid by the insurers). All they see in most motorcycle cases is a dirty oik who has been injured and they can maximise their profit for minimal effort. Unfortunately for people like yourself, you find out when it is too late through no fault of your own. To say that the risk of filtering is on your own head is irresponsible, crass and unprofessional. It is not for them to make a judgement but to act on behalf of the client (you) and represent you to the best of their ability. After all, it is your misfortune that is making them a lot of money, usually up to in excess of £100,000 in a typical LEI case. Your case will be divided into 2 elements (and my apologies to those who have read these points before in similar posts from the past) Firstly, your injuries are covered under what is called General damages. Every injury has a value and is classified as minor, moderate or severe depending on the severity. On top of that you lso get a payment for pain and suffering. At the lowest end of the market, a broken tooth is worth abiut £600. At the top end Quadraplegia or severe brain injury is worth around £286,000. Not a lot as I am sure you would agree compared with say the USA. If the case is settled inside 12 months, that is usually a sign that the case has been undervalued and bear in mind that once you sign a full and final settlement, you cannot come back and ask for more if you are still suffering 2 or 3 years down the line unless you sue for professional negligence. Worth bearing that in mind. No offer for your injury should be made until such time as you have made a full recovery or you have recovered as best as you are likey to, and any offer must also take into account any long term prognosis of problems that may develop later in life. So as an example, you fracture a hip. In 20 or 30 years you may require a hip replacement. The defendants are obliged to pay for that surgery even though it may be many years away and you are entitled to have the cost of going privately covered. The second part is what is called Special Damages. This covers all out of pocket expenses, damage to kit, clothing, mobile phones, watch (as an example). It covers all and any loss of earnings, overtime, public travel costs, prescription costs, if you are travelling to the Hospital or Doctors, you can claim .45p per mile, car par costs. If you have someone to come and look after you whilst you are incapacitated, you are entitled to claim for them as well. If you hire a bike or a car, then these costs can also be claimed Your sacking will also form part of the claim, especially if you hve had to go to a lesser paid job, or you have not been able to find a suitable alternative, and also your previous boss may also have a case to answer through an industrial tribuneral as I think I am right in saying that you cannot be dismissed because of something that has occured outside of your control, and tis would fall into that category, but you would need to discuss with an employment specialist on thos matter. Literally, any cost that you have incurred as a result of the negligence of the third party, you are entitled to claim back and this can mount up quite quckly. Come settlement the general damages are added to the special damages to give the final overal settlement figure less any contributory negligence percentage or any interim payment which is where you will often hear of the multi million pound settlements in the really high end catastrophic cases. I think you have a case to make a formal complaint. This will require you to speak to a partner or senior manager so that you can air your grievance and if they still fail to address your concerns, then a complaint to the Law Society would be the next stage, and believe me, law firms do not want complaints getting to that stage as they will get fined regardless because they have clearly failed to address the clients concern. Lastly, sorry to hijack this thread, wasn't my intention, but I hope for the benefit of @Black & White it is helpfull and gives you a few pointers.
Sometimes ill be rolling past the queue and they change, i just move back in line when it starts moving and the gaps widen, still making progress. I dont always go to the front either , big scary lorry there etc
Thanks for sharing this information @T.C, very informative. It just makes me realise how much I was shafted in the past by lawyers and insurance companies when I was forced off my bike at no fault of my own. It’s not something we think about every day, but it amazed me how little knowledge I had at the time and how little the lawyers cared.
@T.C. What can I say, apart from thanks. Let me buy you a beer sometime. PM me your address & a bottle of Highland Park is on its way! It's a damn fine whisky! You have pretty much confirmed everything I thought & given me renewed confidence. My insurance company, let me give you a couple of clues & see if you can guess who they are.. Here goes... does your surname have a consonant? - that'll be 50 quid. Does your house number have a number? - that'll be 50 quid. Do you want your bike repaired properly? That'll be 500 quid. Give up? Flippin' MCE, bunch of dualing aunts they are! If you want an insurance policy for bargain money, then go with them. If you want an insurance policy that'll do what you expect. Look elsewhere!
