But what will they actually do in this recall effort? They wont change or reprogram anything, they wont replace any parts and they cant offer any answer as to how to use the system as designed, differently. The bike behaves exactly as they intended it to and designed it to. Now the design and behaviours are absurd and frustrating, perhaps even dangerous; but I cant see them changing anything unfortunately.
I know and have said over and over to the dealer that they will not find a fault or a problem, (unless they test it in the conditions that Honda keep advertising the bike as on track running slicks). It will be a pointless exercise with no good results, but they will not go any further in any direction until All 3 bikes have gone back to dealer. They may even come back to us and say we have carried out a factory reset and uploaded some updates. And I will yawn and say wow that’s going to change jack, as I’ve done the reset maybe 10times now with tyre changes etc
Ok - so we got some more feedback to add to the lore of the 2017+ bikes using stock ECU in track situations. It seems that part of the Quick Shifter issues being experienced by folks running larger profile track tyres has been familiarity with their specific setup. As in developing a sort of 6th sense as to how hard/firm/positive to make the gear shifts (especially when setup for GP shift) and especially when running after market rear sets. Due to the actual ignition cut event being initiated by the quick shift sensor on the shift shaft, any hesitation or sloppyness in the selection manifests as a missed shift. Some folks did play with the on dash QS 1/2/3 up and down shift settings in the dash and once they found a setup that worked they are able to click off lap after lap of Autoblipper and Clutchless upshift shifts while using 200/55 and 200/60 tyres. So it is looking like as sensitive as the bikes Autoblipper and Clutch-less upshift appears to be to tyre changes on a stock bike, it is possible to compensate for these differences in tyre rotation speed vs counter shaft rotation speed by playing with the shift timing. However, we are still seeing consistent inconsistency in the Traction Control and Wheelie Control once swapping to the larger tyres. Part of this may be the added grip causing the slip events to now happen at higher RPM /speeds and possibly outside the ideal operating window. Some guys are reporting TC never intervening and others feel it is almost too late by the time it does intervene - and even more alarming is it seems that the stock ECU cannot handle continuous TC/WC events with the large tyre present. As in the system intervenes then appears to need to "reset" before it intervenes again - and the trigger for this reset is the throttle being closed to 0%. But this is just a theory we are working on. Folks running the HRC ECU calibrated for current tyre sizes are not experiencing any issues at all.
Last time we were all on track 3 sp’s we done back to back tests with the qs ignition timing and for us it made very little or any difference, all 3 bikes still had the same faults Re-occurring in 1,2,3, on the dash settings. This was just really focusing on qs fault and not tc. The only other thing I can add is, that out for a road ride the other day I was getting false neutrals between 1st and second I altered timing from 3 to 1 and that did help?
On the road upshift QS issues, how high up the rev band where the up shifts? And for Autoblipper downshifts how aggressive? 5 to 4 to 3 shifts from high revs/speeds?
@RC45 / @nevsrevs credit for your level of commitment to these issues. Have you not considered throwing the towel in though and just buying a bike that is more track suitable straight out the box? I know nothing is perfect but I reckon the new s1000rr or zx10 might be a more hassle free track option.
The thing is @CharlieR85 i love the bike Apart from these issues @RC45 on the road up shift issues spirited riding speeds, not balls to the wall stuff so probably 3rd to max rev range. On the track down shift issues, 3 different riders and 3 different bikes but tended to happen at the end of aragon back straight so top of 5th down into 4th before start of corner it only seemed to happen for all of us at the same corner, think it may of happened for one of us 6-5th too. Again different track same 3 bikes and riders back straight at Jerez top of 4th into 3rd before turn in and bang same thing. Over and over, the difference was at Jerez we had very little run off before the trap so the qs soon got turned off.
Yeah - I am being a little flippant here, but the Honda is just an overall better package. For one, the current BMWs are too complex in their rider presentation - much the same way I dislike the BMW road car iDrive (and subsequent iterations) driver interface. Great technology but useless packaging and presentation. (in my opinion of course ) The 2020 BMW S1000RR is way more complicated in the control department than any track weapon deserves to be encumbered with. A joystick grip for selection? Are you kidding me? The Honda controls and interface are very simple and concise - and even the HRC controls follow a similar logical layout. The Yamaha, Kawasaki and even Suzuki ECU location is simply dumb. BMW at least have the ECU in the same common sense location Honda use. Couple this with the over all quality and enjoyable street bike persona of the CBR it is to me the proper "complete package" - and if Honda unlocked the calibration menu it would be perfect. Literally the reason for all the issues we see is the inability to calibrate for sprocket/tyre changes.
Does jumping up to a 190/55 tyre induce less TC/WC malfunction than going all the way up to a 200/60? Or is it simply the case that any change in circumference essentially disconnects the electronic brain that controls those functions? Has there been any progress in terms of answers or learnings from Honda on this issue in the last few months? I assume not due the lack of updates on the thread!
Honestly, we don't know really. - I have a friend of mine in Florida conducting tests as we speak (he's actually using my other SP2) with a Woolich flashed EU, a stock ECU and 200/60 tyre vs 190/50 tire and various sprockets to see what the actual results are. As for an answer from Honda - not a chance. They are all in promoting the RR-R now and pretty much have abandoned the SC77 range. Note how their press release bragged about RC213V-S DNA etc as if it they just discoered the RC213V-S and decided to use features on a new model... uhm.. Hello Honda you told US SC77 buyers the same song and dance.
In our experience you will see more tc intervention with a larger profile but any change will see auto blipper play up, we have tested 3 bikes all sp’s with multiple tyre types
What do you use your bikes on track for nevs? Have you just given up and put them all back to stock sizes now?
We all use them on track, ones been replaced with a rsv4 factory 2 are staying. Just come to terms of not using the auto blipper, and occasionally having some tc intrusion.
So you're finding that larger profiles are causing *more* TC intrusion rather than less? What profiles have you gone up to on the two you're still running?
On all the bikes (which I presume still had stock UK ECU flash) did you guys all see the TC light flicker during intervention events?
We have run Bridgestone v02 200/610’s sc200/55 sc190/55 and stock on track. By far the worse tyre was the 200/55sc but all had some pretty scary miss shifts normally high speed high gear, always coming down. Easy fix turn the blipper off run any tyre you like and enjoy the bike with no scary moments
All good data and feedback, but at the moment we are trying to determine if the ECU tune has impacted actual ECU feedback to the rider and possibly disabled the TC light illumination. So during any intervention event where you were not wheeling, did the TC light on the dash flicker -- and when you did wheeling and had the bike intervene to bring the front wheel down, did the TC light flicker or was the ant-wheelie just an event without a TC light flickering on the dash?
