Do you get kick back from the front or rear? Have a look here; WP Suspension UK - Motorcycle Suspension Setup - In this section we want to explain to you the basics of motorcycle suspension and some of the effects it can have, WP Suspension UK are the Sole UK Importer and Distributer for WP Suspension Products to help you understand what is happening, why and more importantly.......... what you need to do to cure it
Dave moss reckons that if your over 16st you should fit stronger springs front & rear and if your under 11st fitting a lighter spring to the rear keeps the shock & forks in optimum range of movement (in the sweet spot) cranking up pre load doesn't work nor does softening pre load to much as it does not work with the dampening range of the front or rear, so the bike won't ride,steer or react to bumps as it should
anyone got a good track set up for the 2006 blade....im out at oulton this week and could do with a tweek,
Quite a dangerous thread this in my opinion. Everyone and every bike is different, whether it be spring rates, oil viscosity, time since last service, air gap, rider weight, geometry, rider style, tyres, rider ability, the list goes on... You can get in an awful mess with suspension, and it's a hundred times easier to make a bike worse rather than improve it. From experience, it's worth every single penny to see Colin Leeder at 100% Suspension, Phil @ PCR developments, or Pete @ Actiforce suspension at a trackday, rather than just throwing some settings in. They know more than most about the black art of suspension, and will improve your bike no end, without a doubt. Saying that, i'm a massive fan of playing and testing, and wouldn't want to say outright that you shouldn't, but if you do, and maybe for the first time plan on changing things, you need to follow some basic rules... ALWAYS find out what you currently have in the bike BEFORE you make any changes. Always ride at least the first session with the settings as they are, to famiarise yourself with how the bike feels and get warmth into the suspension Always write down EVERY change you make, no matter how certain you are that you won't forget, because you will... Don't make too many changes at once. Keep changes to a minimum so that you can pinpoint what made things better or worse. Don't become obsessed with suspension. The biggest things you can use to change geometry are your throttle and brakes. These do far more than any suspension change. You will improve more by improving your brake and throttle use, and your body movements. Seriously consider using a professional to give you a good base setting that you can then work from to improve things, tinkering as you go. Without a good base, it's extremely difficult to progress. Correct practice for suspension alterations, front and rear... Compression - All settings from maximum. Count clicks 'in' (clockwise) to see what you have. Count back out and record. If you are 10 clicks, and want to reduce compression, don't just take 2 off, count all the way in, 10 clicks, then count 12 out. It is a fool proof good practice method. Again, record... Rebound - As above. Sometimes count turns if there are no clicks. Always 'from maximum' Preload - As above, but always 'from minimum' If you make a change and don't like it, you can always put it back. Never forget this fact. It's a comforting thing to know, but it's only possible if you record everything you do. Have a note pad and use it.
Hi Bongo, All good info, but I disagree with the "Quite a dangerous thread" as i'm sure your aware, standard road suspension has been designed to a budget and you have to move the adjusters a huge amount to feel a slight adjustment if any at all. With suspension that has been reworked and adjusting and the adjusters 1-2 clicks have an effect, I totally agree. Spot on recording their settings first before trying out different settings or if they are different to standard, try the standard settings (I forgot to add that). Top Tip: Record the settings that you are happy with as it has also been known for people to have a fiddle with your adjusters I've used Pete at Actiforce on my track CBR600RR and would say the bike improved loads after he had a fiddle
Hi Bongo, I whole heartedly agree with you, we set up our suspension yesterday via Dave Moss tutorals, and now my mate Dougie is lying in Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy, Fife. The bike reacted totaly different to what he was used to! We were negotiating a S-bend going through Glen Devon he applied the brakes! The bike sat up next thing i saw was him and bike somersaulting as he hit a grass banking narrowingly missing a low wall with gully behind it, was very lucky!!.. He has a broken coller bone and wrist and his 2010 Repsol is pretty much fcuked! & so is his summer! Our bikes felt better at low speeds but once you push a bit harder you don't know how it will react till it's to late! So take heed take your bike to a suspension specialist who can set it up properly also can take through the changes and tell us how it will effect the bike! I think Dave Moss is being totally irresponsable showing novices how to change these setting, but it has given him fame regardless of conequences!!! How can he e-mail settings to a guy without knowing his weight etc! When he is so precise on his video's? He should be advising us to take it to an expert and not to mess with whats keeping us on the road! There are to many variables with these setting! Dougie is 26yrs he's been riding 7yrs this is his first off! He is just back from the Isle of Mann where he tore it up with no moments! There is no doubt the suspension changes was the main cause for yesterdays off! I suggested doing the suspension so when Dougie is fit i will treat us to an expert set up it is the least i can do as i feel guilty over what has happened! So be WARNED! For the sake of £70-£100 it's just not worth the consquences! The majority of us on this forum are average Joe's not experienced racers or expert mechanics we have to take stock of this! These are powerful machines we ride and demand respect! Being complacent with that fact could cost our life!
Firstly, I would like to wish your friend Dougie a speedy recovery. I have always found standard road suspension to cause the bike to stand up when the brakes are applied going into a corner, it's only been when i've rode on the roads with modified suspension that it hasn't happened. As i wasn't there when the accident happened, I can not say what caused it but to put it purely down to Dave Moss's video, I fill is a bit unfair. If you look in the owners hand book, it tells you how to adjust your suspension, If your friend Dougie did this and had his accident just as above would you still blame Mr Honda as well? I've had my suspension setup by a so called "Expert" on my track only now CBR600RR and it was made worse then what it had been!!!!!! I ended up having it redone by Pete @ Actiforce who did an outstanding job. The fork on this bike have been modified and each click has a feelable effect. Lots of factors could have been involved in an accident like this: Road surface Tyres Speed Road position Rider concentration Target fixation etc,etc Again I wish Dougie a speedy recovery.
Cheers Barry, I know what your saying mate but suspension is a specialists area! We can be all be influenced by Dave Moss and his like, to give it a go! While i can't soley blame him, he has a repsonsablity and should be advising us mere mortals to get it right by a professional! He is the expert but is also contradictory he goes on about warming up the suspension before making adjustments etc to get them precise! Then on the other hand he giving settings by e-mail with total disregard to the guys knowledge or skill at setting up his bike never mind weight etc! I find this totally irresponsable,misleading and dangerous I thought i knew what i was doing but obviously not I have learned a lesson big time! It's a pro set up for me future, where you may get a good setting but you can also get lots of poor settings which can be dangerous!
I agree, with a lot of what you have said mate. 2 riders who weight the same may like their bike setup the differently, i.e. 1 of them may like to trial brake upto the apex, another finishs his braking before entering the corner another is very hard on the brakes with the rear shimming the surface etc,etc. Thats why after you've had your suspension adjusted by a specialists they ask you to have a ride then comment on how it felt, what you liked or disliked, then they would carryout further adjustments untill your happy or run out of adjustment and require a suspension rebuild.
People shouldn't blame the bike, or suspension setup, or any advice they have taken, for their own mistakes. Harsh but true IMO.
I've lost count of the amount of times i've had front end issues that were cured by making changes at the rear, and vice versa. Inexperience would result in front end changes being made which wouldn't solve the issue in question and would most likely creat other issues. I've always used Pete @ Actiforce and built a good relationship with him over the last 4 years. He knows my riding style and adapts the bike accordingly. Along with this i make my own changes and record whatever I do so that i can always have feel and get the bike to do what i want. What I would say is that i've never ever ever made suspension changes that affected the bike enough to cause a crash. This is because after a change, you always need to ride at 80-90% and feel what it's doing again to see if you can then push that bit more and really see what it will do. To make changes so severe that they cause a crash is very unusual. The crash is usually because you have ignored something thats there to be felt, or you've ignored the fact that maybe you haven't got any feel. You could have all the grip in the world, but if your bike isn't telling you the grip you have, there are changes you can make to improve this, as that feel of grip is vital. I know many are talking about making changes on the roads, in which case, you are never ever going to be near any sort of limit anyway. From my road days, the big thing about road bikes is that they're generally too soft for spirited riding, and tyre pressures are generally too high for long warm summer rides. I know what i'd do to the bike if it was mine, with the aims of keeping the bike balanced, and also to aid braking and corner entry, which was always a weak point in the road bikes i know of, where i tended to see the fronts too soft, without enough rebound. Overall though, and i know it's almost always ignored...Doing one or more trackdays, with some instruction (don't forget trackday instruction is free, so USE IT!!!) can improve you far more than riding a bike with slightly different suspension, and the same level of ability. There will be a million things you do on a bike that you are totally oblivious of, that can be changed and improved, that will instantly and radically improve you on the roads. Simple things like when you down change going into corners, how you apply the brake, where, when, and how you move your body on entries and exits, and then why. Because if you know why, and feel the difference, you'll stick with it. Bongus
No your opinion is not harsh mate! It's self righteous and arsey! Lets hope your never caught out! So none of us can turn round 'n' say you told you so! What you being prefect 'n' all
Your right Barry, that's why im going to a pro mate! As i would'nt know what to changes to make thing better at the moment i feel like your " so called expert"! Dougie's not blaming me as it was just one of those things but i feel if adjustment weren't made we would have enjoy pub grub instead of eating dirt
Sorry about Dougie mate, Is he sorted with his collarbone? Google shoulderdoc, Dr Lennard Funk. He is hands down the best in the business, internationally, for collarbones. I've been under his knife and was 100%, racing again in just a few weeks. Everyone including me who have broken collarbones either wish they had it plated, or are glad they did have it plated. Get him on the case and DON'T let him settle for the NHS saying it's gonna get left, because mark my words, that's exactly what they'll say... Can you find out exactly what suspension changes were made to the bike before he crashed??
Gents, teaching granny and all that, everything I've read about setting up suspension says make gradual changes and take notes so you can revert, I make it repeatable by having a stretch of road that has a bit of everything and I know every inch of, this makes any changes pretty much immediately apparent (like a track would be). On my SS the last owner had everything at max, it understeered like a bitch, couldnt hold as line, took the advice in the books and online and reverted to manufacturers settings which are usually decent all round ones, went from there. decent now, take it steady...... Barry107 , thanks for the settings I'll give them a try, working up to them. HRCTrev, regards to your pal, been there.........Mike
Cheers Bongus, Yeah settings are the same ones at the start of this thread pretty much, although they were ment for a 195lb (14st) rider w/out gear! My bike is non abs but Dougie's has abs which probably has had an effect on the settings
Those changes are very very small changes from stock settings and i'd really really argue that they simply couldn't change a bike enough to cause a crash at any sort of sensible speed on the road. You'd be extremely hard pushed to crash on track with 2 bike setups of equal changes as you have above. Be extremly thorough checking the bike out because it's probable there was something else that caused the crash, whether it be an issue with the bike, or more likely a rider error due to a different feeling ont he bike maybe. I'm not having a pop or criticising, jeez, i've lost count how many crashes i've had in the last few years, but there is always a reason, and to move on genuinely and put it behind you, it's vital to find out what happened. I make far more changes than the above changes when i move from dry to wet settings, and i have ridden wet set up in the dry at mariginally slower pace to dry. Suspension just doesn't cause crashes unless you are at a serious limit. Dave Moss' changes above are balanced changes in line with what i would do and anyone with any suspension experience.
Twist it any way like, but I just think you need to look at the rider as the cause of a crash like this. Might help prevent a recurrence if he thinks back about what happened and exactly what he did.
Cheers Bongus, I have been pretty shaken up with what has happened! It hard watching your mate and his pride & joy cartwheeling in front of you! So thanks for your wise words they have lifted some of the burden i've felt! And also been enlightened Thank again
I've felt the same as you Trev, I was following right behind one of my mates when he lost the front on a left hander on his YZF750, his bike skidded across the road into the path of a car, which it hit, then my mate piled into them both. The bike didn't walk away but he did. As soon as you both understand what happened, it's easier to put it behind you and move on.
