and this was my reply to his nonsense Im very disappointed in this response, I and many other CBR1000RR ABS owners have described a similar experience, and for VOSA and Honda to discount this would suggest that this is all one VERY big co-incidence. You mentioned that you rode 2/3 between Honda and VOSA, had it ever occurred to ask one of the MANY CBR1000RR ABS owners that had reported this to you, to donate their bikes for testing purposes ? Could we look to approach this from a different angle and maybe have some/all of us that have reported the issue to you be involved ?
Hmmmm, did anybody actually really expect a different result? I have noted a few times that out of the bikes I have ridden with honda cbr abs fitted I have had the brake lever come back to the bar, first time I was about twenty minutes on the bike, on the second bike I was lucky if I had my butt on the seat more than 60 seconds! The one thing I need to keep circling back to is the fact that these bikes don't belong to me and the owners have never had any issues with the brakes (one is a one owner 2010 blade!) but I some how manage to get the brakes to fail without spending very much time on them!
As far as I am concerned, he is being spoon fed fettled bikes by Honda UK, they have made a corporate decision globally to ride this storm out, they know they are flawed and don't give a flying fook about their customers IMO. There is not much he can do with Honda IMO, I just find it as gobsmacking as you that all the evidence that is out there from multiple sources around the globe is being ignored, it is beyond doubt that with so many riders in different countries, many highly experienced, reporting the exact same issue, that something is totally wrong, are they suggesting that everyone is making this up? Japanese engineering integrity has been severely damaged over the last decade with so many automotive recalls, this is just another episode in that long line of design failure.
I to have received the letter from VOSA however, I'm sending a letter back to explain, why then with the attached report from the dealer where they able to sample the brake lever coming back albeit the brakes appeared to be still working, and nobody at VOSA or Honda where...me thinks a stitch up. Noting they found this whilst riding through the store grounds, try it when your on a public road and see how you feel, you get such a fright you go straight back on the brakes and when doing so they act as you would expect, this time round. So what next, well in my opinion I would suggest we now write to MCN and bring it to their attention, at least Honda will get some crappy publicity. They have had my bike for 2.5 Months and have offered no goodwill gestures whilst I missed the biking season. I would also suggest those who can be bothered with it also send something into the BBC Watchdog using the subject title HONDA CBR1000RR BRAKE FAILURE, if they see enough coming through they might run with it! I personally have had enough with Honda, but now its winter and with not much happening I think i will use the opportunity to stick the frigging boot right into them and cause as much reputational damage as possible. Not sure what what those who have been affected by this view is, but I'm going down both these routes with it.
Just a 1 second Google search and its worldwide.......theres no way on gods earth that Honda don't know about this!!!!! Any C-ABS Gurus out there? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org take your pick loads to choose from.
They had my bike! It was mine they tested and as I highlighted earlier I will ask for an explanation, why was the dealer able to make the the brake go to the bar, as highlighted in their dealers report but VOSA and Honda couldn't???
I do wonder how many more angry people will spring up when every new bike sold in Europe will have this ABS system fitted? I would also be curious to find out the actual figures of blades sold in the UK since 2010(introduction year of honda ABS) and the percentage of which of those are ABS equipped models?
For Britain, 35% of Blades had ABS, in France it was 20% and in Italy and Spain it was just 5%. Setting aside the racial stereotypes for a moment, let's concentrate on the UK, and consider why 65% of Blade buyers opted out of ABS… Poll: What puts UK Fireblade buyers off ABS? - | Motorbike reviews | Latest Bike Videos | MCN
Just to update this thread, out of exasperation, i decided to follow up on some stuff that i've read (on this as well as other sites) and can dispel some "myths" and hopefully save others a lot of work: Myth #1: The problem is caused by air in the brake lines Well, I have the typical 2012 CABS brake lever problem so I decided that even after the dealer bled the lines completely twice, I would do it myself since others feel that Honda Mechanics aren't capable of properly bleeding the brake lines. I'm not talking about a piddly "conventional line" bleed. I bled the whole damn thing! And let me tell you brothers, it's a pain in the ass. Don't believe anyone who tells you they did it "in a couple of hours before riding". Bullshit! This system is the worst planned bit of engineering on the planet. Routine maintenance that is completely inaccessible! Just plain stupid. First you must remove all the following plastics: Air Intake Cover; left and right Air Duct Covers; Lower Cowl, L&R Middle Cowls; Left Intake Air Duct; & Left Rear under Cover. Don't even think about trying this without the Service Manual. Then you must drain and remove the Radiator and a bunch of crap that goes with it - real pain in the arse. Then off comes the muffler, and finally the exhaust header. All this to get at the stupid "heat shield" which covers the bleed bleed valve on the front power modulator. There is a possibility that you could get by leaving the headers, but it's really tricky so I decided to go for exposure. I didn't want to wreck anything. Aside from the HUGE waste of time, there is an associated cost: radiator drain crush washer : $3.93 exhaust gasket $5.03 x 4 : $20.12 (must be replaced) muffler gasket : very expensive (I can't remember, but around $30. Needless to say I re-used it) Dot 4 brake fluid $10.99/bottle x 2 minimum: $22 Motocool factory coolant $16.31/L x 3: $48.93 Thats $93 in supplies! And you can't test the brakes until you get it all back to gather, so if there's still a problem, you will have to start all over again (another $93!) Anyway, I thoroughly bled the front brake system (as per service manual) which is time consuming, but easy compared to getting at it. I can tell you all with absolute certainty, there wasn't a single, solitary molecule of air anywhere in the system! Makes sense. Where would it come from anyways? So forget all the conjecture you read on the net. Air is simply not the problem - period. Myth #2: Heat. It's the location of the of the damn Front Power Modulator - so close to the headers that somehow causes the problem. Makes sense; bad place to put brake stuff. It even seems like the problem really starts up once the bike is warmed up and seems to get worse in "stop and go" traffic when the bike gets really hot. Problem is, it's just a bit too simplistic. I'm sure Honda Engineers took proximity to hot components into account when they "designed" the system, but others have reported fixing the problem by heat shielding, so I figured what the hell. Bikes apart anyways, so I might as well. Here's what I did: -completely coated heat shield with Lava Mat heat shielding -covered the steel line from the modulator to the valve unit with reflective heat tape -completely wrapped the exhaust headers with exhaust wrap to eliminate the heat source in the first place Cost was about $75 (plus time) Results: Not one bit of F**n difference. Lever to the grips on first ride within 1 minute (and about every minute thereafter)!!!! No difference what so ever. This is the problem with "internet advice". It's often completely wrong. Oh well, it's better than Honda can do. So lets sum up: 1) It's not heat 2) It's not air 3) It happens on every C-ABS bike that I've been able to get my hands on (600rr as well as 1000rr) 4) Honda says they've never heard of it, yet the internet is littered with reports the of exact same problem) 6) Bleeding system won't help Conclusion: This is sounding more and more like a "DESIGN FLAW" in the system itself. There will be no easy fix for users like myself. I doubt that Honda has any idea what the problem is, or even cares! THis is a company that manufactures 'Super Bikes' that just aren't that super, and could care less. It would be nice if Honda would deal with this and save customers like myself all this hassle. (and I actually have an extended warrantee!) Sorry I can't offer any solutions, but at least I can save others a lot of time and money on futile modifications. I can not see how changing the power modulator would make any difference as there is no "connection" between the modulator and the lever feel. The problem MUST reside within the VALVE UNIT. That's the only component which is directly "connected" to the lever. It contains the "stroke simulator" as well as all the valves which channel the brake fluid. I've studied the schematics for hours, and can simply not figure out where the brake fluid is going when the lever moves closer to the grips. Only thing I can think of is the STROKE SIMULATOR isn't as good as Honda would have you believe, and it simply moves more or less at random intervals. The only other possibility is that the fluid in the VALVE UNIT is somehow "bypassing" a valve and thereby temporarily increasing the capacitance of the system and somehow getting back in the system to make the next pull normal - pretty far fetched if you ask me Amnesia
I got this response from VOSA a few weeks back, after reporting to them again that I had the front lever come back to the bar immediately I operated it from 70mph, this is the 3rd time of happening, as well as the usual sinking to the bar in low speed filtering. If Honda want us to believe they do not know what is the issue and cannot replicate a fault that riders worldwide are reporting, then they are treating their customer base with contempt and taking them for a bunch of cnuts. Since the response they have finished testing Jim Glasgows bike, but I have had no further communication from VOSA. The VOSA engineer has obviously ridden a test bike, was it supplied by Honda UK?, I can only dream that if it was, it was the most tested CABS bike on the planet before they let him on it. Also who knows what is a substantial number of reports? Massive grey area that one, personally I feel one bike displaying this issue is one to many, but multiple bikes worldwide, that is no coincidence or collusion between riders, I have lost total faith in VOSA and Honda. If Honda wanted to get the bottom of this for once and all, they would set up a control group of riders who have complained of issues and whose bikes have gone through the dealer network and after remedial work are still suffering issues, but they just are not interested, personally I think they know what the outcome would be and its to painful to contemplate, they are just hiding and hoping it will blow over, trouble is, that as the bikes age, and fall into the hands of those less able to maintain them financially, one can only guess what will happen with this system, 5 hours labour minimum to bleed a system, sometimes has to be done twice by so called expert techs, Honda have designed a system that is so expensive and complicated to service, that it is destined to be ignored by owners and its the most important system on the bike. Thank you for your email dated 27 September 2013. After examining the technical detail of the system and riding a similar machine I am unable to ascertain how the brake lever can travel to the handlebar and not supply any braking effort. Indeed the only time I could get additional travel of the brake lever is when the machine had been ridden over a certain speed and braked to a stop. For a very small period of time all three valves in the modulator unit are open and the lever will go more towards the handlebar, when released and applied quickly. However, this is when the machine is stationary, the brakes still function, there is still reserve travel on the lever and it is a function that is designed into the system. Honda have now asked for a machine with the reported concern to be taken to their Training School/ Workshops. Permission of the owner has been given and testing will start next week. Neither Honda nor VOSA have received a substantial number of reports. However, the nature of the concern demands an in depth investigation even though the number of reports is low. So in short, the concern is still under investigation.
I have sent an email to VOSA asking why both Honda and VOSA where both unable to get the brakes lever to behave the way we have all encountered, but they dealer was.... its a bloody stitch up. I think we just have to accept they don't give a dam and until some government body or bike organisation of some sort get involved who has balls everyone is stuck with. Dealers Service Report Description, I can't seem to load the report so will type it out: "Carried out road test on bike, checked operation of the brake found the lever to vary if brake lever puller in quick succession but brakes always worked. No sign of air in the system"..........mmmmmmm
If they are looking for bikes they supply you could tell them bike number 5 of the Ron Haslam Race School has the fault it's a cbr600rr but I got the brake lever to the bar by the end of the pit lane which almost fired me into the back of the instructors bike which was waiting for me & Colin to line up behine at the end of pit lane! Tbh I think they are doing there testing ar3e for elbow why do there own testing when the user can get it to fail multiple times in the space of minutes, pay for the owner/user to come to there test garages and show then the problem in front of them! I still think this is another case of a too big to fail situation and Honda know there is a problem but don't want to come clean about it and have to bere the cost of the repairs!
All they need to do is phone the dealer MR.B on here works for and John Banks Honda who got my bike sorted with the replacement of the front power unit. Since the front power unit has been replaced there have been no problems, i also believe the same for the bike MR.B's dealership fitted a new unit to also!
I had the problem with mine, lever to bar at low speed. Had to pump it to get brakes to work on various occasions. Reported it to dealer they said they couldn't find Anything. Took it to different dealer they said discs were warped and changed them under warranty. Was much better but still had intermittent problems with lever to bar. Went in for service and they bled brakes. Now been fine since.dealer told me they had not heard if this sort of problem and neither had Honda when they had spoken to Honda Technical.
Honda know they just claim its the "characteristic" of the brakes! I have no doubt there will be a recall one day, till then we await
Not in my experience, dealer spent 10 hours bleeding twice at Hondas cost and a new ABS ECU, had the lever back to the bar twice at speed since then, as soon as you release and reapply they work fine, its as if the ECU does not know the lever is moving. Honda response? Feck all, they don't want to know, just in case it costs them millions to resolve, it will cost them a lot more once the first death caused by this flawed system is proven.
This Honda response thing all sounds a little too familiar. Wasn't there big publicity years ago regarding Pan-Europeans going into to a speed wobble and two bike cops lost their lives as a result?? I'm sure when Honda investigated this they didn't come up with anything. Didn't the cops drop the use of Pan-European after this??
I had my '12 ABS serviced today. New front brake-pads (Honda Dealer). Immediately noticed on picking the bike up that the brakes are WAY tighter... And I couldn't make them fail on feathering any more... Lets see if it lasts... H
Hi, Ive just picked up on this thread. Im picking up a 2012 C-ABS blade tomorrow which was registered in Nov 2012 ( 550 miles) from Fowlers in bristol. Im not sure on date of manufacture though. is this ABS issue something I should be concerned about on this age bike ( digitial dash model) thanks
