Honda updated the crank in the 2010 models not 2011 for a heavier one which allowed for a smoother power curve low in the Rev range. The crank issue was caused by the crankshaft in 2008/09/10 models not having the correct hardening strength carried out on the ring gear which meshes with the clutch basket and therefore the rest of the drive chain. They supposedly corrected the hardening issue by the 2011 model, some owners say the issue only became evident after pushing the bike on track or popping clutch wheelies but to me if the hardening process was not uniform and the same for every crank during the bad production period it would mean differing hardness and very hard to identify when the issue would rear it head no matter riding styles! The noise is a gear meshing whine sound that sounds like it comes from the clutch basket area of the engine case!
I'm pretty sure all you will get from that will be something similar to "Can't Help You....Computer Says No!"
Hi all my first post ...hope you and your bikes are all well ... I am posting here as i think my 2009 blade has developed this problem the bike was bought in 2009 april,,initially... i purchased the bike in may of last year ... I have contacted Honda uk to see if they would honer the problem and repair the fault, which is clearly a defect in design but i am not holding my breath. I am pretty sure i have a deformed primaty drive,I have watched youtube vids and my bike sound the same, did the test in gear front brake on clutch out slowly and the noise goes... I have reaserched this and i found a extended warenty notice issues in the USA for bikes made 2008 to 2010 they give a 1 year standard warrenty plus 5 if this issue arrises. Am i right in saying we get a 2 year warrenty plus 5 in the UK. I also read that in the UK there is no time limit on this issue but cant remember where i saw that. All the best
The bulletin sent out to Honda dealers said warranty was increased to 5 yrs including original 2 so basically giving and extra 3 yrs only on this crank noise issue. This means that 09 models warranty expired around August/September 2014! Even 2010 models are no longer covered under this bulletin and any repairs is down to the customer, you may possibly get some goodwill on labour or something but you will be made to pick up a chunk of the repair tab. The no time limit thing only comes into play if there is an actual recall by Honda(think honda may have changed now tho and recalls also have time limits!), the crank noise was not a recall it was as said before a service bulletin item that the dealers would only look into after the customer specifically came in complaining of the noise otherwise nothing would happen and Honda/dealers would not publicise to customers there may be an issue.
Got myself a crank whiner? A round-call to several dealers led to disappointing confusion as all denied ever to have encountered the problem, including Ten Kate... As I bought the bike from a non-honda dealer, with (current valid) guarantee, I need confirmation on the crank problem other than my judgement based on comparison to the Honda bulletin and other video's. Any pointers how the crank deformation problem can be proven, other than by sound?
Not sure what sort of confirmation you are after but that's the same whine we had off Colin's 09 track bike. Honda have always been pretty secretive and keep things close to their chest when it comes to supplying information (just ask a dealer about the abs system issues!) that could see them having to part with cash via warranty claims! Is the place that sold you the bike planning on trying to claim it under an extended warranty policy or something? Even after stripping the engine down no visible issues are noticeable on the crank ring gear on the one we stripped anyway but below is a pic of what it eventually looks like. Crank sprocket with visibly sheered teeth in middle of picture, the crank should have teeth that look like its mating partner visible just below on the clutch basket frame.
I bought the bike under the impression (and told by the seller) the sound was clutch noise. I even had an professional objective bike inspection done before buying, but apparently he didn't recognize the sound correct. Now it turns out to be a "secretive" crank issue, which is extremely costly to repair. Problem: Being a honest human, I cannot sell the bike in the future without making notice it has a crank issue. This down value's the bike significantly of course. As my bike is still under warranty from the seller, I plan on returning to the selling dealer and appeal for repair under warranty. Because the bike represents not the value or in the state as it has been sold to me. BUT, I expect this not to be received very well, plus it has to be proven that it is the crank issue. A comparison to online youtube video's will probably not do... So, I already tried with Dutch Honda dealers to get objective confirmation on paper it is the crank issue, but till now they all deny knowing it. I tried Honda Benelux support, and they too deny the problem. I would like to go back to the seller, claim repair under warranty. Bringing along a statement from Honda it has the deformed primary gear. It would be a clear call, if the seller then disassembles the bike and finds physical damage on the crank. I would even be prepared to pay for the disassemble cost, to look whether the crank is damaged. (if there is no physical damage, how can one know it was indeed the crank, other than the sound disappearing.) Goal: Get seller to fix the bike under warranty. Means: Get confirmation through Honda. Proof problem through inspection by seller? (The extended warranty from Honda on a 09 bike is long due... so expecting nothing there.) Maybe the seller will be very cooperative, but I want have solid arguments, just in case
Do you have a copy of the Honda service bulletin notice? If you ping me a pm I can email forward the PDF bulletin document on to you, could be used to prove Honda a least admitted issue to UK dealers! Honda UK bulletin number was 31012011 and was termed 'abnormal engine noise'. The problem was to do with the the heat treatment strengthening being carried out on the crank ring gear I will post a pic up of what bulletin shows to deem if the crank is revised version or not, it pretty much just looks like the revised version has had a blow torch put on it as it has blueing scorch marks at the teeth area.
ShineSideUp thank you! Usefull info. The pdf's (in german and english I have). I assume the shredded teeth on the photo are the extreme end result? As mine is still running fine apart from the sound, I should have visible wear on the Crank teeth? This should help identify the problem and prove my point.
Yes that's an extreme case. Normally the fly wheel itself just distorts slightly which give you the whining sound.
@ColinBR If I understand correctly, the Primary Gear isn't hardened correctly and can deform under stress. But the whine is caused by the fly wheel which distorts under the stress of the deformed primary gear? I can understand Honda said it has no influence on reliability, as the flywheel compensates the primary gear damage? This may sound stupid, but as I expect to need more proof than "sound" to claim warranty, I hope the primary gear or flywheel shows signs of unusual wear.
There is a test procedure that Honda Techs use. I don't have it on me but again @shineysideup has it or at least knows it. Basically sit on the bike with the front brake on. Dip the clutch and into first gear. Slowly release the clutch (still holding the front brake) as the gear engages and goes into load. The sound should dissapear.
I am aware of the procedure; but it leaves a lot of room for perception... My videopost earlier of my bike is shot according this procedure. In my opinion it is identical to several youtube examples of the problem. Plus, as described in the bulletin, the whining sound disappears or lessens when the clutch is released. (The whining is more pronounced when enginebraking in town) Still I am very curious whether physical evidence on the crank can be found. I would expect there to be evidence, as the primary gear is deformed, and as you say distorts the flywheel. It whines on situations the clutch is engaged and rear wheel turns slower then the engine, which makes me conclude it should show signs on one side of the teeth.
Hi the issue only shows its head if you stress the parts ie ride hard or clutch wheelies up.. I went 2 teeth down on the front sprocket which I believe to have accelerated the issue. Honda believe it not to be common but it's very annoying if you own an affected bike. It's not a safety issue so no recall. Now if I alter the gearing I change rear sprocket only on any motorcycle I buy
Update: Honda confirmed the issue but has no intentions of compensating the fix. Now three options are left: 1. Learn to live with it. As it apparently doesn't effect reliability 2. Claim warranty at the selling dealer as the bike doesn't represent the flawless state it has been sold as. (The sound was sold as clutch chatter.) 3. Bite the bullet and get it fixed. For now I am disappointed Honda hasn't taken it's responsibility. The original crank is not strong enough (it is a supersport bike, no touring bike), which leaves it vulnerable for the issue whether the bike is new or 7 years old. The original design is faulty, confirmed by the fact there is an updated kit available and 2011+ models with updated crank are not affected.
This was the sort of response I was expecting from Honda as I posted earlier in the thread. your three options listed: 1. I call bullsh1t on it not affecting reliability as it sheers off the primary crank ring gear sending metal shaving all around the engine and once the gear disintegrates enough you lose all drive from the crank going into the gear box so your stuck possibly in the middle of nowhere requiring a van or truck to come get you! 2. Best option for you as well as the cheapest but this requires both the selling dealer as well as the warranty company to accept there is an issue and accept the costs of the repair.......may be a hard sell if the bikes still going and not on fire or something! But depends on the dealer really. 3. Costly for yourself but you can upgrade to a newer lump with a few more additional tweaks that Honda have made to the blade through its 8yr life cycle. Your reaction to what Honda have said and done about the issues affecting the blade and I am sure other vehicles in there lineup is imh warranted and justified. I pretty much took a similar stance in my opinion of Honda's treatment of customers dropped drastically but this is unfortunately the new climate we live in where corporate bean counters dictate what a life is worth compared to what it will cost them to fix the issues, if the cost of litigation is higher than cost of repair then out goes a recall if not tuff sh1t to the unlucky to be involved in the chaos! just look at the abs thing, no other system on any vehicle is more important than the ability to stop successfully every single time but Honda adopted a sod them attitude let the few who survive try and sue us! Most important to remember here the brake lever on an abs system normally returns to normal feeling at the lever once fully released therefore any crash investigator would firstly not see any skid marks on the road and find the brake lever functioning normally after an incident therefore would most likely put the cause down to rider error or not paying attention to the road as they never applied the brakes which at the time could be non functional brakes!
Been to a Honda garage yesterday, to get information on the fix. Still in shock: the kit, excluding oil and additional small parts costs 2.500 euro. The Honda garage disagrees with Honda's flatrate hours of 9,9 hour, and predicts 20 hours of labour at 60/h = 1.200 euro. Total costs of the repair would be near 4.000 euro! Half what the bike is worth... I cannot wrap my head around Honda not taking its responsability. To be realistic, i do not expect Honda to 100% compensate the issue on a 7 year old bike. But the least they could do is provide the parts at productioncosts instead of a commercial rate. Alternative is to buy the kit online, several shops offer the kit for around 1.100 euro. Then look for a technical friend and invest all winter to rebuild the engine.
