Implement a strategy to protect motorcyclists from imports of unsafe clothing https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/702450 EDIT - this is a posting copied from the Triumph forum that I am also on. I didn’t start the petition just simply looking to share the link.
What do you deem as being unsafe clothing? I can give you a lot of examples of a lot of branded expensive big name kit being more dangerous than some of the cheaper unbranded items and if you search back through some case studies I have posted on here before where I give a number of examples. Because it has a big name does not mean it is safe or decent. So sorry, I will not be signing.
Some fake or imitation gear is actually very good. Poorly thought out, poor construction and manufacturing and poor fit is the usual issues.
I would have thought that unsafe gear was gear that didn't have the right certificates whether foreign or not. Stuff like Ride magazine used to test showed it wasn't always expensive stuff that was best but I wouldn't buy fake or imitation gear - whatever you mean by that - as I just don't know its provenance. So yep, I'm all for the petition.
Bennetts have been banging this drum for a while, some really good vids about it on YouTube. Amazon are quite bad for it, selling generic "motorbike gloves" that haven't met any sort of standard. It's sad because it's younger folks with small budgets just starting out in biking that are more likely to use these untested garments. Ofcourse it "can" be, but without appropriate testing and certification you're merely guessing until the time comes to find out. Ultimately anything sold to us as motorcycle PPE should have been tested and met a standard, that's what the petition is for. Signed.
@SimonRR I have edited the post and its title to give context for my posting. Unsafe would (and I admit only assume) be that with fake quality credentials and/or fails testing to UK standards requirements.
Most PPE testing is not worth a light simply because the system can be cheated and I have seen it many times. But because something is generic does not mean that they are rubbish. I used to be the sole UK importer for a brand of high end leathers and bike clothing from Germany. Except for the bespoke tailor made stuff, 99% was made at a factory in Sialkot in Pakistan. This also applies to the likes of Dainese, Frank Thomas, Alpinestars, the whole lot. Why? Because production costs are much cheaper having it made there then making in house. I was at one of the factories and I was offered a FT jacket. At the time it retailed for about £200 here. It was identical because it was the same jacket as was supplied to FT, but I could buy it for £30 sell it for £100 and still make a good profit. The difference was that it was not badged or labelled as FT but we all knew it was. The make I was the importer for had their gloves made in Sialkot. The top of the range branded gloves I used to sell for about £50 a pair. I brought the identical gloves off the same production line (just not branded for under a fiver a pair and they were one and the same product. The CE mark can easily be circumnavigated. If you get the chance go and see how items are tested. You get it approved for something in particular, (for example a fabric jacket is tested for waterproofing) and when it passes you sell it as a protective jacket and CE approved but it is only CE waterproof tested. I could go on. I was a consultant for a number of brands and was lucky to be able to go to the likes of Shoei and Arai in Japan, AGV in Italy, Lazer in Belgium as well as the brands I retailed, and it is all about glitz and glam and relying on a brand name. There are one or 2 who really are very good, but don't be fooled just because it is a name. I was left crippled directly because of a big name not doing its job. And if in doubt, then look at the BBC Fake Britain programme I was the expert on a few years back where they (the BBC) were more concerned about a cheap set of leathers not offering protection because they had "Honda" and such like stitched onto them and they were cheap, but in fact they were actually quite well made and quite tough, and they did not like the point I made that a youngster would be far safer in something like that than if they were wearing jeans and trainers. They did not like that so 7 hours filming was cut to about 10 - 15 minutes air time because I would not bend to their narrative. So believe me, I have been studying kit and the effects for a long time going way back to when I was still serving and investigating bike crashes hence I was able to produce the case studies over about 15,000 bike crashes I will shut up now and I apologise for withering on, but it is something I am quite passionate about and I have been involved in (and still am) for a long time and also been the victim. A petition will not change anything because it is so subjective..
There's your answer, better more reliable testing and certification for motorcycle safety clothing and equipment. Someone should start a petition . The alternative is the wild west, deregulate everything, let everyone flood the market with shit and the NHS can get better at skin grafting. I'd rather have robust testing and certification. One thing you said is bang on.....the petition is pointless, I agree with it's sentiment though.
That has sod all to do with kit. The issue is riders not wearing any kit, poor fitting kit or kit that was never intended to be used on a bike in the first place. Educate riders about how kit works and what it is supposed to do. Educate dealers in selling kit (especially helmets that fit) Stop dealers trying to sell expensive race replica 1 piece leathers for road use which can actually exacerbate the severity of injuries in road crashes. I have pushed for a long time for dealers to be licenced to be allowed to sell kit so they have to be trained, and get them out of the habit of being afraid to lose a sale and selling helmets that are 2 sizes too big because they don't have the right size in stock (which happens a lot), and avoid or prevent mail order sales. Now that is a campaign I would get behind
Yea all great ideas but that still does nothing about Amazon selling "motorcycle gloves" from China that fall down during testing as in the video above from Bennetts. Which I think is the crux of the petition.
Interested in why you think expensive one piece race leathers used on the road can exacerbate the severity of injuries in road crashes?? What could be more safer that a well fitting one piece that holds the armour firmly in place where its intended?? Textile 2 piece suits certainly can't do that. I personally feel safer and more confident in my riding knowing I've got the best level of protection I can afford, which isn't necessarily the most expensive either, I normally go for mid price range stuff!
I’m interested in the answer to this too. Having just gone down the BKS made to measure route! Understanding the quality of bike clothing is nightmare. Abrasion resistance is one measure but the Dainese don’t conform to the A,AA, AAA labelling, much of Rukka’s stuff is merely A rated. RST seem to be transparent about their stuff. So please tell us more T.C. Best way I can see of getting decent stuff is going the MTM route with BKS, Hideout or Scott who all make stuff for the Police Edit - that petition is just wank…..
Was this you T.C.? “If you are ever only going to do track days or ride on the road, then a two piece is safer than a one piece for a whole number of reasons. A one piece is fine for the track where there is medical help close to hand, and by and large the injuries sustained can be dealt with quickly and fairly simply back at a medical centre if needs be. However out on the road when it goes pear shaped, the nearest Ambulance is often miles away, and when they arrive a diagnosis has to be made quickly. Now if you are wearing a one piece with a broken collar bone and lower body injuries, and bearing in mind it takes time to cut through body armour and 1.4 mm of leather, the only other alternative is to try and quickly peel your super duper one piece off your shoulder making the upper body injury even worse and certainly more painful, or risk leaving alone and hope to god that the lower body injury is nothing serious. With a two piece, the jacket (and I am talking about zip together suits here) can easily be separated from the trousers allowing easy diagnosis of lower body injuries. Discomfort and increase to the severity of an injury to the upper body can be minimised and time is in now in favour of the medical crews. A one piece is also designed for the racing crouch, so it goes very baggy around the lower body much more quickly than a two piece because the elastication and stress points are different, apart from the convenience factor that when you walk around with a one piece tied in a knot around your waist you are now stretching the leather on the sleeves. I can quote you probably 50 examples of where someone wearing a one piece has bled to death on the side of the road because access to a burst vein has been restricted or time consuming, or where a severely broken leg has not been diagnosed properly, or where the rider has been in absolute agony whilst the medical personnel attempt to remove a suit over a smashed shoulder and collar bone to gain access to the riders stomach because most of his inners were sliding down the inside of his suit and they could not cut through the leather and armour quickly enough. And so the list goes on. A two piece does not suffer that problem, and take into account on race track there are nice wide grass run off areas, and smooth tarmac and everyone is going the same way, and a medical team and Doctor are only seconds away, a luxury we don't have on the road. If you want to minimise the risk (and I see stories like I mentioned every day) then consider a two piece full zip together over a one piece race suit, believe me you won't regret it. When asked about his background, the original poster says: I only have 20 years of attending bike accidents as a motorcycle copper, 10 years as an accident investigator (my current job) where clothing worn still plays a part of the investigation, and 5 years on a full time basis studying every single serious and fatal RTA in my area in respect of the clothing worn not the cause of the accident, visiting all the main testing bodies around the world, manufacturers in the UK, Japan, Germany and the USA. I also have to prepare reports and studies as an expert witness for courts and law firms (as well as mine), and I am also frequently asked to study and prepare reports for Government agencies and other safety bodies not just here in the UK but for overseas as well.”
Well I suppose it is hard enough to get out of your one piece leathers when you are fit and well after your ride..
Has your opinion changed over the years? Have medical services routinely started carrying cutting gear. I’d have thought they would for seat belts in cars. Have airbag fitted leathers made a difference as they have expansion panels to accommodate the airbag which should mean it is much easier to remove. Are there arguments such as you’re less likely to crash in well fitting 1 piece leathers because you’re more comfortable wearing them and can move around the bike more readily? A bit like shorts and a t shirt might make you less likely to crash because you’re comfy rather than being distracted because you’re too hot?
