has anyone bothered to remove the PAIR system from the airbox to get a more accurate AF reading on the dyno. it sends air from the airbox to the exhaust to lower the C02 reading for emissions. surely the dyno operator can just nip the hose with a clip temporarily? thats all they did on my last 3 bikes i had tuned. the US forums are pretty big on the PAIR mod as well as the removal of the valves inside the ram air tubes
I read the US forums on the PAIR mod. Even considered doing it myself. But I thought that is too much faffing around for little gain....
It's only worth doing if your fitting an auto tune unit so the lambda sensor gets an accurate AFR If your just fitting a power commander it's not required and from what I can gather even on a custom map it can just be temporarily blanked off while on the dyno
Regarding that intake flapper mod they love over there... Most of them actually only do it to get room for HID balast and some do it for more noise or just to make fairing removal easier. AFAIC it has no performance benefit for a standard or lightly modded road bike, unless someone can prove otherwise?
Can't understand their obsession with HID lights. Thought it was sunny over there. I can't see that flapper mod doing much as there will be verr little ram air affect until high speed anyway. I think it's like if I fit go faster stripes to my car it will all of a sudden gain 10bhp Every tuner I have spoken to so far have said leave it alone on a road bike and only remove it on a race bike to save a bit of weight and room but you fit aftermarket tubes anyway to get rid of it.
Hi, Yep, Ive disabled the pair valve on mine. At first I simply popped a ball bearing into one of the pipes whilst getting in on the dyno. ( The dyno guy did say that all he would do was clip it for the dyno runs. You need to be able to read the A/F ratio properly when setting up with race pipe etc. ) Ive now removed most of the gubbins and made some block off plates. Only did this as its a track bike now. For the road though just putting a block on the pipe is all thats needed though. Yep, the yanks seem big on all this flapper vale mod and pair removal but u dont have to spend £££ to take it all out of the equation. Regards, Phil.
i had a look while fitting my power commander yesterday and think you could probably put a clamp on the hose without taking the tank off, just the cowling. did you find this?
I just put on another post about power commanders but the flapper valve actually restricts the airbox flow up until 5000rpm, not really about giving more power, but in a sense it does as it levels out all the dips there, pretty conclusive dyno charts showing that it removes that nasty blip of power just before 5000rpm if Power Commander'd properly as well. The ONLY reason for this valve unit is for noise and emission purporses, it serves no performance benefit to the bike at all, restricting airbox flow by up to 50% until the valve opens after 5000rpm on 08 bikes. The telling part to the tail is the HRC parts (airbox, etc) completely disregard the PAIR valve and FLAPPER valve Worth it in my opinion ! Smoother power is better power !
Let's see those dyno charts please mate. Assuming there are no other mods being done at the same time?
There's a 2005 dyno with them professing a 3bhp increase - Honda CBR 1000RR - Easy Flapper Mod Honda CBR 1000RR - Dyno Runs What you want to look at though rather than listen to their power increases is how much more linear the dyno line is. Will find one for a newer bike when I get home but its essentially the same thing just a bit lower down the rev range. From 3000-5000rpm Here's some more links for both : ROGUE RACING CBR1000RR Intake Flapper Valve page ROGUE RACING PAIR MOD for CBR1000RR
Thanks mate, seen those ones before actually. This is getting interesting as I did the mod on my 06 and don't dispute that it does seem to have a noticeable effect on that model. I'm not yet convinced of the same effect on the 08+ models though and I haven't seen any evidence to change my mind.
If you did both of them in reversible form, very easily, just reverse the change before you take it into the dealer ! Both can be plugged using plugs from a plumbing shop. The clever version of me would have written down the diameters for both plugs on something other than a bit of paper that I threw away when I left the shop. For the flapper mod, the howto shows how to do the reversible and the full version, but for the pair mod the page only shows the full yack out the PAIR system, but basically when you take the top of the air-box off its the hole just to the right of the filter you can follow it under the air-box to see it goes into the PAIR system to be overly cautious ! But just as a reminder there is NO performance gain to doing the PAIR mod it just gives the correct AFR reading from the O2 sensor port instead of an overly rich one when running AFR auto-mappers like the Bazzaz AFM and DynoJet AutoTune (sensor sees more air, which it thinks is coming direct from engine, adds more fuel to AFR mix to compensate, equals overly rich bike) on the plus side if you DO do the PAIR mod wrong and use an auto mapper, the worst case scenario is a bike that's too rich, and not too lean, which wouldn't be great ! Also if you're sticking an AutoTune on and you're diving into the Power Commander software, you have to add values to the maps because the bikes apparently run very lean at idle when you've got a full system on and are using DynoJet's maps for full systems, I added 20 to most of the idle positions (1250-1750). Don't set the AFR for these fields to correct it or it'll just skew the AutoTuning around that area. But the flapper mod is definitely an easy way to level out the power curve in the lower ranges plus whilst you've got the air-box top off you could always throw in a nice high flow air filter !
I take it everyone realises that the intake flapper mod is slightly different for 04-07 and 08-11 bikes because the flappers work in different ways. On the 08-11, you need to force the flaps to stay open I think by unhooking them from the diaphragms?
Aye, whoopsie ! Here's a photo tutorial for an 08 : 08 Flapper mod : Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycle Forums: 1000RR.net Just confirmed it with the dude who did mine and yup you are correct - it was done the way I just posted lol Just unclip the top of both inner side fairings pull slightly on the plastic and the valve is there - then you just have to remove the spring and the diaphram and voila, open PAIR system. Must remember to check my tutorial years in future !
What stops the flap just moving around inside the tube once the actuator has been removed? I'm assuming that once the spring is removed its just going to flop open and closed as the bike moves?
Good question, after assuming it was the same as what I did on the RR7 I flipped the tank up and pulled the inner side fairings off and had a good look for myself at what the mechanics did on my bike. Basically you want to remove the actual flappers and diaphrams themselves plus cap off the hoses, that's what's been done on mine, remove springs then remove diaphrams and flappers, or leave springs on and take them all out on one go, don't forget you have to do this once in either side of the ducts left and right, apparently there's talk of them shooting up the ducts into the air-box if you're not careful. Also note on the american forums if you remove the complete system you get FI lights. So stick to just the flapper doors, diaphrams, capping hoses and springs. http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45817 If you stick to the picture tutorial on that you really can't go far wrong, there's also more pictures around page 3-4.
so on your bike you removed the solenoids, diaphragms and completely removed the flapper door? you left the vacuum tank behind the clocks in place and just capped of the airbox hose? did you remove the fairing to do it or just the black in fill panel? if you remove the flapper doors i would think thats quiet irreversible. cant see how you could refit them for warranty work etc. if i decide to do this mod im going to go whole hog and remove the whole system including vacuum tank etc. full fairing off job but the only plus i see out of it is a little weight saved so half arsed efforts are a bit here nor there. from reading that forum there are no warning lights if you remove all the wires too.
