No way known will this happen because Honda is on record as having stated that they will not issue protocols that detract from their 'recommended' sizes/settings. Honda claims it's set up as a road bike. Should race/track teams want to alter those optimum settings, then the HRC kit or other aftermarket modifications shall be the correct route. I don't see that any of us have been 'miss sold' a bike; the bike and its specs were specifically detailed in pre-sales brochures. The main issue that I, and some others have, is that the 2019 software upgrade, as it relates to throttle sensitivity and 'wheelie control' cannot be incorporated or 'reverse compatible' as I have previously mentioned into 2017 - 18 bikes. Needless to say that I wish you well in your quest. My negativity comes from previous personal experience of pursuing this route.
So the fact the bike comes with a lap timer, and track setting, and Honda invites you as a new owner to come on a Honda track day, plus we got settings that we can see on our dashboard that we can’t use because Honda got scared of what happened to some of there star Ambassadors on track. I never read in any publications or got told o by the way your pretty much bollocks at running any performance tyre other than what we have stuck on it. Yes I feel like I have been miss sold a bike.. Then to rub salt in my wound a month after my purchase the 2019 model has all those channels I got promised and temped with are opened up and unlocked. I Know it’s probably a dead end and I’m searching for any nugget of hope but surly the more grumbles we give them as unhappy customers the more chance there is of a recall
Correct, Honda America basically told me to go screw myself, the bike is a street bike. If I want the Sport-kit menu, I am Shit Outta Luck as they wont even sell me the HRC Sportkit. That's why I bought it from Japan. I and other USA SP2 owners are twice as angry as we did NOT buy an SP1 because Honda told us the major difference between the SP1 and SP2 would be the unlocked Sportkit. Of course after we took delivery they denied ever sayign or suggestign that - in fact they went right back to the press releases saying only race teams and racers will be allowed to buy the SP2s and the expectation was those teams would tear the bike to basics and rebuild as a race bike. I learned the hard way that the HRC Sportskit does not support the $7500 retail value Electronics Ohlins suspension either. Bitter is far from what I feel. I feel like Honda swindled me out of my money by selling me a bill of goods.
Digging up this old thread but this seems like the right place to post - in the manual for the 2019 SP there is this page about the Sports Kit ECU - is this just a reference to that optional extra referred to by RC45 in the post above rather than something that’s built into the bike already?
^^^ Yep, we have that on page 88 of the 2017 - 18 of the Owner's Manual also. Not speaking for @RC45 but I think he had problems trying to get that ECU from Honda. It's certainly nothing we can access.
Yes that's the one. And the actual Sport Kit they refer to is the HRC ECU/Wire Loom/Hard Parts bundle which has ended up costing the earth to implement. I now have 2 copies. The original -000 ECU that Ten Kate had to fix because Honda shipped it with an error in it, refuse to acknowledge and refuse to address. And a -700 version also fixed by Ten Kate to work on the SBK motor.
Has that new combo of parts/ECU etc solved the issues around tyre sizes and sprockets? Can you now mess with your rolling radii and effective gearing with impunity?
Yes, but its cost me about $25,000 in extra parts and time to find out how. And the bottom line is the result is not a street legal bike. The simplest route without the errors, red herrings, false promises and non-SC77 compatible crap I bought along the way to have access to the Sport Kit Menu would be this: Buy CBR1000RR SC77 SP2 Buy Ohlins FKR100 cartridge kit Buy Ohlins TTX rear shock Buy HRC ECU (or send stock one to Ten Kate for modification) Buy HRC Wire Loom (or send stock one to Ten Kate for modification) Buy Ten Kate race bodywork, including smooth intake tubes Buy HRC front subframe (leave rear subframe to simplify process) Buy track orientated brake pads. Buy tires of choice. Move IMU to the front subframe Remove ABS hard lines and pump when installing HRC Wiring Loom. Essentially you are buying this: Then you convert it to this: So you can see this: All Honda had to do was open the calibration menu up on the street bike. Instead they simple built a bike that was half arsed. If they wanted into the electronics market then they need to do it right. All the other bikes on the market that have any form of electronic aids are either self calibrating or have a menu to calibrate for sprocket and tire size changes. This is literally the most basic feature. I however, got distracted along the way and instead of ending up with a SuperStock spec bike, ended up with a WSBK spec one. WSBK built in a shed. Had we known THEN what we learned along the way - this is what we all shoudl have bought if we wanted to go on track: Honda Race Base SP2 This is the SP2 engine without the Ohlins, Brembosor ABS and no road legal trimmings. Just add the Sport Kit hard and soft parts you need.
Good post and info, Paul. Dare I say this, but the R1M might have been a quicker, cheaper, and less stressful track option. Gotta admire your courage and devotion though! Cheers!
I have never experienced any issues with my SP1 but i am a bit boring, I don’t modify them but i do like to ride them and happy to open the throttle where and when i can, i have ridden for 38 years and every type of bike, initially when cableless throttles came along i hated them, some where truly awful. My 2010 VFR1200F was a brilliant bike but its throttle was truly possessed, it sometimes just went into a frenzy buckaroo mode that always happened at the wrong time. Some triumphs in the past i also hated the on and off feel of the the throttle, they have improved and i can honestly say I don’t feel any issues with mine. Hopefully thats how it stays....
Thanks for the support Nigel - and yes, after much discussion with Ten Kate about just this subject, the R1M is probably the better route to a street / track monster 1000cc bike. If you are more inclined to track only then the R1S is an even cheaper and better starting point - fewer expensive parts to take off and the same YEC/YART/bLUcRU (or what ever they are called this season) parts apply to the R1S, R1 and R1M. But I am sadly just a sucker for Hondas.
What sort of standard do you race at @RC45 ? Had any good results on your SP2? Kudos to you for the commitment.
The crazy thing? I was just building the bike for the enjoyment of the build and the learning process. A couple of friends of mine in Florida purchased their SP2s for club racing and my development was in parallel to theirs - ad ideas I had they tried and validated. The final verdict is an SP2 is a terrible platform for a club racer and the 1 gent got rid of his setup and went back to his 2014 all analog CBR1000RR race bike and the other bloke bought a Ducati V4.and it is almost ready for the 2020 season. Honda have literally ignored everything that club racers have fed back to the and simply ignored the amateur racing segment. The bottom line is that is that the only way you are going to be competitive with an SC77 Honda is to go the HRC kit route.
I really hope that Honda have taken this on board from the track day/club racer segment for the 2020 Fireblade. We will see in the next month or so when the bike becomes available for test rides.
Just beat me as I was typing this: Honda have literally ignored the professional racers also. Let's hope they HAVE upped their game with the 2020. To date, all looks promising! I guess Bautista will make the first call.
Sadly I am getting some inside feedback that Honda is once again proudly aiming the bike at top tier high dollar teams and there will be little to no support for amateurs, track day enthusiasts and club racers. Honda claims that the SC82 was developed with track day enthusiasts in mind, but seem to fail to understand few track day enthusiasts have an extra $20,000 to spend prepping their bikes. Their arrogant stance is the bike as sold is good enough for amateur use - and if you intend to race then you need to pay full entry price. Like with the SP2, there are only 2 options - 100% stock or full SuperStock modified. There is no middle ground.
Well i can only hope that anyone amateur looking for a racing platform from Honda get what they want from the new bikes and i hope for Honda the Pro racers also get a winning platform, in the end thats how Mr Honda tackled the British domination when he turned up at the TT. Winning on the track does entice sales which in turn is good for the brand. However i think that the way Honda treat their customers has never really been great for a long time and they are not alone, i think we all feel like we are part of a giant prototype beta testing scheme that we pay into and then left with what we have. I love the brand, my first bike was a Honda, even the name. Just feels part of my life, almost like a middle name. But i think the way in which the 2017/2018 were sold, the subsequent updates to it in 2019 that amazingly does not even factor in a path for backward compatibly. so its basically always f*ck you early adopters and we don’t care about your loyalty or futureproofing within the same generation. Suddenly you own a bike that for the trade in is like getting leprosy overnight and its the main reason why i would not even consider the new Blade, i am a long term customer who is in a financial position that if i really wanted the new bike i could have it. Seeing my own bike devalue so much and to see it now being branded as the one that does not have the latest fixes and never will is why Honda will not see my money going into that sort of purchase ever again. Something surely is not right to be left feeling this way. I still love my 2018 SP and technically I don’t have any issues with it, i also understand that if you are racing it then its a different setup and not relevant to me. However i can understand how frustrating and how peeved off it feels to realise there is not a factory recall or upgrade to address customers issues from what is really a new model in 2017 and a slight revision addressing those issues that has not even been considered for those first bikes. I know that people will say thats why they don’t buy the first models but someone has to, why should it just be taken as defacto stance that this is just tough and your loss, something still not ringing right in my the customers head. Ah well Sunday morning rant over....
If the new Blade does not include the calibration interface or self calibration capability we have been asking for, then the bare minimum needed to run the HRC ECU and loom to go club racing is going to be about $15,500 - and that is assuming you will keep the stock wheels and brakes. If you choose to club race the base Fireblade then you can save the $3600 for the Ohlins conversion, although you might find the base suspension lacking. $2100 If the FKR125 Ohlins cartridge is the one for the new SP. $1500 The new TTX 36 shock $1800 HRC ECU $1500 HRC loom $1500 HRC Dash $7,000 HRC subframe, fiberglass bodywork, various sensors, brake lines, connections and other peripherals that come along with the switch to HRC ECU and tossing out the Ohlins ECS, ABS etc. So you see how Hondas arrogant refusal to include any type of calibration interface on the street bike forces you to essentially convert your bike to a TT SuperStock bike or disable half the electronic features you paid for. That's a very bitter pill to swallow knowing that the ZX10R, R1 and Ducati V4 can essentially be club raced just with a swap to fiberglass bodywork and racing slicks. And track days with the above bikes just involves switching to bigger slick tyres, taping up the head lights and calibrating the system for the new tyre size and sprockets.
Who provides the software ? We have seen that they have installed a BOSCH IMU, and a Honda ECU. So whose software is it that cannot be opened in a calibration interface ? It seems to me that the Honda ECU will have to read data from BOSCH's IMU, otherwise there is no point in having it. No point in having an IMU if the data that is being produced by it cannot be read - it may as well be replaced by a tin of Tuna. So whose software is running the show ? If BOSCH provide an IMU that is essentially locked then Honda will not be able to change anything on the other side of the equation. If the BOSCH IMU is only programmed to provide data within a certain parameter - then Honda (ergo the customer) will not be able to change the other parameters such as tyre sizes. Yamaha have their own IMU and all this stuff can be changed - Honda do not have their own IMU and all this stuff cannot be changed - is that the reason ?
