Well said Amnesia. I purchased an ABS blade and after a few weeks took it to a Honda dealer and traded it in against a new non ABS blade. There is no way Honda can not be aware of this issue. The bike magazines are clearly in the Manufacturers pockets. Cant believe this article has not come to light before now. It feels like flogging a dead horse as this subject has been done to death. Some love the system and have no issues - other hate it. I personally could not ride the bike again after two occasions of the lever coming to the bar. I also made the mistake of telling the Mrs....needless to say, she wouldn't let me ride it anyway.
I am working with a bike magazine on this issue. Suggesting that their silence is bought by the manufacturers without any evidence to prove the accusation, hardly helps our case, particularly when it has taken so long to get them on board.
Fair point Kentblade - I am not trying to make the case harder. I will not comment further if it is compromising the case. I am keen that this is sorted for all ABS Blade owners.
Cliff did that contact pay off in the end? Really glad to hear that is being picked up on buddy and I hope you guys get what you want from it at the end of the day. I'm not going to slate anything I'm just mega pleased that finally somebody is listening.
I have a 2012 ABS 20th Anniversary Edition. Only had it two weeks and so far no problems. Must admit, it's the thought that it MIGHT not work which has me more worried. I'll report any problems I have IF I have them but I'd be interested to know how this goes.
Kentblade; Sorry if you feel that my comments have in anyway hurt the cause. Believe me, that wasn't my intention. Nobody wants to see this issue resolved more than I do! My only motivation is extreme frustration. And I do stand by my comments that it's very surprising that nobody who "test rode" the bike for a major publication review (other than the article posted in this thread) ever even noticed the problem. I applaud your efforts and those of the journalist that you have enlisted and anxiously await the results. Hopefully this will result in some sort of "recall" and force Honda to deal with the issue before someone gets killed. If he wants to speak with someone in North America please feel free to give him my name. Amnesia
I had my 2012 into the dealer yesterday. They followed Hondas advice and did a full brake bleed (5 hours ). He apologised profusely because they needed to follow Hondas recommendations on it (Rather than doing anything else). The mechanic who did it was there and said he got 2 bubbles out of the main line... Which means (Assuming the bleed was done before I picked it up new) that in 14 months of riding (10200 miles) the main line has leaked two bubbles of air into the line... The mechanic did expand on what happens and said the brake lever SHOULD be a little softer IF you don't release completely before pulling the brakes on again. He did sai that's because the pump is still spinning and hasn't restarted... but although that may be what Honda have said to him, I'm not sure I accept that from an engineering POV... He did say that they should NOT collapse all the way to the handle... They replaced the rear pads too (To stop the squeal) so didn't get a change to try any emergency stops... But I did try a few times the feather-release, feather-relase cycle... Managed 6 in a row and although the lever did get a bit softer, it hasn't collapsed yet. But then I got the same thing after the front pads were replaced back in April too... Will try some more once the rear pads have bedded in... H
I hope Honda were paying for that 5 hours and not you Kiwi, 5 hours at London labour rates is painful.
Yeah. All under warranty... I also rang and spoke to Honda customer support about there being air in the lines after only 14 months... Plus the brake failures when you apply the brakes in a hurry immediately after using them to slow down (i.e. The normal ABS issues). Certainly the person on the phone didn't seem to think it was very good... I now have a reference and the name of a person who will contact me within a week... H
I'm sure someone has probably mentioned this somewhere and it may well be irrelevant but I noted on one post details of the bike, year etc were requested but wasn't sure if rear wheel/tyre size was noted. The reason I ask is I have just read this line in the owners manual: "It is important to follow the tyre recommendations (2 P. 128), because the Combined ABS computer works by comparing wheel speed. Incorrect tyres can affect wheel speed and confuse the system." Just thought it was worth a mention.
Definitely makes a difference... The 190/55 will probably throw it out enough that Honda would say it isn't supported... However it's a pretty stupid ECU that can't work it out from the 20m or so you have to roll the bike forward when starting for the ABS to kick in... FFS, I write software for a living (Sometimes). I'd be pretty fscking embarrassed if I wrote software as stupid as the firmware seems to be on the Honda C-ABS... H
I also write software for a living and I would hesitate to criticise the software developer for a complete system. I know I've had shit software released when it wasn't ready and I wasn't even informed that it was being released, and their idea of my ability to test was laughable - it was as good as I could make it given the environment and information that I had to develop it in. I am pretty embarrassed about this, but there wasn't much I could do about it either short of quitting my job. It was a management call and I feel that they threw me under the bus. Yet, I was criticised for it. It may be an easy thing to have a calibration occur for the first 20m, sure, but were they allowed to do it?
Don't know how far this has gone but I had an issue with mine on Saturday. I've had the bike for about 6 weeks now. 2011 model - C-ABS. What I've found by riding it is that the brake "feel" is not consistent. It varies dependant on speed/time of day/position of the moon etc. I did have the lever come back "nearly" to the bar when stop/starting in slow traffic. When I pulled it again it felt ok. It was ok again then for weeks up until this Saturday. Having stopped at my folks house following a ride (no issues), I was manoeuvring the bike round on the drive to turn it round. Now - the ignition was on but the bike was not started (so no ABS active??) - however, as the drive is on a small slope, when I rolled it backwards and applied the brake - it came back to the bar! One pump and it was back again to a decent "feel" at the lever. Now, this begs the question(s) 1 Bike was not running and had not passed 5 mph so was or was not the ABS system primed/working? 2 This bike is just over 3 years old and has only done 1800 miles. I doubt the brakes have ever been bled. 3 From an engineering perspective, if air was in the system, it would absolutely NOT cause the brakes to collapse one minute and be fine the next. Since this episode I have done another 100 miles of so on the bike and done some serious heavy braking with no issues. If it does happen again I will do one of two things. 1 Sell it - I don't want to as I like it. 2 Remove the C-ABS system altogether and replace with Braided lines direct from master cylinder(s) to calliper as per conventional brakes. As you guys know - once something lets you down and it gets into your head - you can't trust it - and certainly something as important as brakes! Rukka
Rukka; Sounds like a "typical" C-ABS blade. The only thing that is unusual is that it occurred when the bike was off. Mine has only occurred above 6km with the bike running. In fact pulling the ABS fuse (which totally disables the ABS) completely resolves the problem. There was a problem with the original C-ABS blade's ABS ECU that left the ABS running after the bike was turned off! This was somehow triggered by a back and forth parking maneuver. Usually, the result was a dead battery when the rider returned. I'm not sure when Honda replaced the ABS ECU, but mine is 2012 and it came with the upgraded unit. If yours has the defective ECU, and you hadn't left the bike parked long enough to drain the battery, this could explain why the ABS system was still active when the bike was turned off. One way to tell would be to pull the ABS fuse which should totally eliminate the ABS system from the equation and test ride it for a while with "conventional brakes". It's a VERY frustrating problem. Good luck Amnesia
Ah, but when I pulled up to stop initially, the was no manoeuvring - I just stopped and got off. It was when I came to leave I turned the ignition on and then pushed the bike back and to to turn it round. As it was on a slope I just applied the front brake as I put the bike back on it's side stand while I mounted. That's when the lever came back to the bar. I had read about the back and forth thing causing the ABS to stay active - I don't think it was that.
Rukka, Now that I think about it, one time when I brought my bike to the dealer to complain about the brakes, I had parked the bike and removed the keys. The dealer walked up and squeezed the lever about 10 minutes later, and indeed it did go right to the grips (with no key in the bike). It really caught him off guard! So I guess it can happen. Just another example of how useless and unreliable Honda's C-ABS system is. You're lucky that you didn't drop the bike!
Funnily enough mine has now developed an ABS "feature". It's a 2009 C-ABS which I've had for about 9 months, it has 11K miles on the clock. The ABS light has only come on once previously after a good few hours ride and rectified itself when I restarted the bike. However, I went out for a few hours yesterday afternoon and about an hour into the ride, riding in fairly slow traffic, I touched the brakes (no real force) to come to a stop. I felt the lever shift backwards (but not fully to the bar) and the ABS light started flashing. Since I was already stopped, I turned the bike off and restarted. ABS light came on as usual and then went off as I got up to speed. The very next time I went for the brakes the same thing happened - I felt the lever "shudder" (not fully back to the bar) and the ABS light came on. I repeated the stop/start routine. All was well again until I touched the brakes again, when the problem repeated. It now seems to be stuck in "ABS flash mode" whenever I use the brakes. Restarting will clear the problem until I use the brakes, whereby the problem re-occurs instantly and the ABS light starts flashing. The brakes are fine while the light is flashing, albeit with a slightly softer feel. I'm not sure if the ABS has ever been bled on this bike as I didn't buy it from the previous owner. Is there anyway to diagnose if it's just a bleed problem or a failed modulator?
Your bike is operating in "normal mode" (non ABS) as the ECU has detected a problem with the ABS system. The problem could be almost anything. Since your ABS light has come on, there should be a fault code stored in the ECU. It's pretty easy to read the code (with the help of the service manual) or if you're not handy take it to a dealer. Unfortunately, the codes aren't all that specific or helpful.
The first abs ECU module upgrade was released around late 2010/early 2011 and came fitted as standard to all new 2012 models. Honda still seem to make changes to the abs ECU on what appears to be a year on year update basis goin by the part number changes on the top of the ECU!
