I've just been out on the bike and there seems to be an unusual amount of heat coming from under the seat.. Abs modulator overheating maybe..? Getting a bit annoyed now that I can't 100% enjoy my riding!
Kentblade, i am a time served mechanic and everything you are saying is spot on! I had the chance to talk to a reputable Honda motorcycle Technician a while ago who is a friend of my brothers and he told me that the C-ABS blade required the brakes bleeding every 2 years because they are prone to contamination due to the location of the ABS unit and the high levels of heat in that area. He also recons the C-ABS system is a very good system. I have had a few issues with my brakes due to feathering which is indeed a quirk of the system, i ride around that now. Also dirt around the ABS sensors because they are really open to the elements and vulnerable, also calipers/brake pads sticking which driving around through winter with salt spreading is gonna happen.
Thanks for the input Wolfmancol, I am convincing myself, right or wrong, where the issues are and how they play out. The system as we know is fly by wire, so the feeling in the lever is not real feel as in a non ABS system, this is where the lever can suddenly lose feel and come back to the bar, my thoughts on this are that the ABS ECUs programming is not right in this area and could be improved to stop this happening, again I may be off the mark, but I am struggling to see past this, as the braking is all controlled by the ECU. The second issue you raise is the front modulator position and temps. Again I am leaning towards that being the main culprit of air ingression into the system over time, that would then suggest the correct on time bleeding should keep the issue at bay on a bike used mainly in road conditions, but potentially leads to a faster schedule of brake fluid changing for track bikes. I can fully confirm that winter riding does cause ABS malfunction issues (as in random flashing of ABS lamp) with the contamination of calipers, pistons, ABS sensors, and again you just have to maintain them more frequently, ie I was cleaning mine every 6 weeks or so this winter with the high levels of salt and road crud that I ride through.
No, I agree 100% here. I've experimented a bit, and it SEEMS to be over-use of the brakes do this. Pretty consistently. That needs fixing. In fact it's the ONLY time it affects me. You're doing something perfectly normal for a non ABS bike, and suddenly for no good reason the brakes pretty much cut out with the lever collapsing. It's like the ABS thinks there's a skid. Maybe because the brakes are applied, but we're not slowing? (Because the brake is only applied a fraction, so it's not going to slow you much if at all). I wonder about that. What I'm trying to say here is that I don't think there should be any difference between ABS and non ABS if you're NOT in a situation where ABS NEEDS to cut in. That's a bit of a bugger considering you want them MORE in winter than summer. H
Oh... From reading the specs, I don't think it's so much a fly by wire system. But a system that IF the ABS THINKS you're skidding, it will release the brakes a bit (There's a manifold that opens somewhere to release the pressure). The pump is to make sure the pressure can be built back up. But it LOOKS like the pump doesn't always manage that. So the lever collapses. Once collapsed, you could recover somewhat with the rear brake lever (Probably the reason for the combined feature). However I wonder if that's just a one-shot feature. Bollocks that as well an now you're poked (Release the brakes needed to reset the fluid balance so you can use the brakes again). A purely fly-by-wire would probably be better (More consistent shall we say rather than better brakes). Indicate brakes and the ABS pump brakes for you.. However the implemented method is safer IF the ABS mechanically fails. It just doesn't release the pressure so you get normal braking. But they seem to have this other awkward failure mode that doesn't seem to have been anticipated by the engineers... Wonder if they aren't riders perhaps. H
The plot thickens, I've had the bike on the road for 246 miles and the abs light is flashing again with the modulator squelching every time the ignition is on now. Mail sent to Dealer and will call them tomorrow to arrange collection of it for further diagnostics.
Sickening to hear that Pete, thought you were past the problems. That really is a concern after the issues they had bleeding it. I put 600 miles on it this week, so far fingers crossed. But hearing your woes does nothing for the confidence that correct bleeding is end of the issue.
regarding the brake lever collapsing, not sure if its exactly the same as what youre seeing, but I can reproduce the collapse. if I give it a lot of gas and then quickly let off and pull on the brakes, its gives a sensation of brake fade. Is this what youre experiencing ?
Hi I had the loss of pressure to lever last year on my 2012 ABS blade, doing about 60, I had feathered the brakes to slot into a space between cars, the cars started to slow and my lever had no pressure, I shat myself, released and grabbed the lever and nearly did a stoppie as i put so much pressure on but the lever had resistance. I reported to the dealer, it was sometime around September 2012. They had had no instances, I took the bike over to the dealer and there were no recorded faults held. Sunday, filtering past a long line of traffic, stopping and starting as opposing traffic allowed it did it again at about 30 mph, I was much calmer this time, released and re-applied pressure and all was well although it had added some distance onto my filtering plan, just made it look untidy. I rang my dealer this morning and they now have reported incidents of this happening. They rang Honda UK and range me back 40 mins saying they need the bike ASAP and not to ride it back, more because we knew a fault had occured and if I ploughed into something on the way there, hindsight is no defence if it all goes to rat. Initiated Honda Assistance, who were most helpful, and arranged recovery from my home address to the dealers some 50 miles away. this all happened between 11am and 2.30pm, so far so good! Dealer tells me they will work on in Thursday and Friday as it is a 2 day warranty job and it has been authorised by Honda. Honda want a full ECU log. Just to take the shine off the efficient way this has been dealt with today, the recovery who are sent by AA for Honda Assistance managed to scrape the under tray / belly pan as they unloaded it at the Dealers, they didn't have a ramp for the trailer. However, the garage reported it straight away and AA are getting it sorted as soon as dealer give then a price for repair or replacement. The service manager and the senior technician at the dealers are people I have known for many years, so once I can get to speak to either of them when they are not at work I will try to update as to what they have done.
I am leaning more toward fitting conventional brake lines; the incidences of "problems" or so called "quirks" is rising rapidly. I have been riding with the cabs switched off, which is fine in the sense it prevents failures/problems/quirks/etc, but the braking is not a good as a conventional setup. Interestingly, my son had an insurance quote for the cabs equipped bike & it was somewhat higher than the non-cabs; go figure....
Name: Brym Model Year: 2010 RRA Reported to Honda: No Taken to Dealership: Yes Description of fault: CABS cut out while braking, lever momentarily went soft. Scary when you are not expecting it! Description of work carried out: Dealer checked it out nothing obvious at first. Noted it was winter and brakes needed a clean. Reset fault code. Cleaned calipers/pistons Problem Resolved: Yes until recently approx 1 year on the same happened again. I rode it for a few days like this. First application of the brakes the abs light would flash and brakes swap to conventional (no ABS). After a couple of days it cleared itself and has not returned. Check your brake pistons are clean as the system setup seems sensitive to any spikes in pressure due to sticky/dirty brake pistons.
To update this thread my bike went to the dealer today. The codes have been read and the code is 53. Which translates to incomplete brake bleed, caliper fault or front power module fault. The dealer is going to speak with Honda Technical tomorrow to try and get a front power module replaced under good will. We shall see what happens tomorrow. I'll keep you updated.
Today's update, the dealer have put a claim in for a new modulator and are waiting to hear back from Honda as to what they propose to do. I will more than likely hear back from them on Monday. I will keep you all updated. During the wait I will be trying to find the best place to mount my new 808 720p keyring camera to the bike for future videos of rides.
Think I mentioned that on page 1. fyi - the bike on which we replaced the front power modulator has been fine ever since. Unfortunately the rigmarole of bleeding the system once or even twice has to be followed like a crib sheet before anything else will be considered. It's obviously going to be cheaper for Honda 'if' the bleed resolves the issue and it may, temporarily from my experience.
Yeah that's what the dealer have said to me also. I hope it will get sorted as I don't really want to have to trade the bike in. I'll find out on Monday either way I suppose.
Had my lever come back to the bar on my Ireland trip. Wasn't even riding it at the time! We'd been pootling through a village and had stopped in a side road as one of the gang had unexpectedly pulled in to a garage 400 yrds down the road for fuel. We sat there and waited for him to catch up and when he did and I started my bike back up the lever came straight back to the bar. It fully recovered with a full release and re-application, so I feel there is a lot of merit in the view that the modulator behind the exhaust headers is susceptible to heat at low speeds in town or when a bikes been sat for a short time on a warm day and the modulator has absorbed the excess heat in to it.
Well i have heard back today. Honda have agreed to replace the front modulator under good will. Hopefully this will mark the end of it. I am relieved that they are paying for it as it be a nightmare if not. I am just waiting to hear when the part will arrive and then get it in the dealership and repaired.
