Great news Pete. Is this an updated part or has the part never changed from 09? EDIT Looked on parts fiche, appears to be the same pn from 09. anyone know different?
Nope same part i believe, but its clear that my one is not performing as it should do so its being swapped, and in the process of it being done i am going to ask for some pictures of where it is located so i can make some form of heatshield to fit it. Cheers Pete
Right got the bike back now. Brake lever barely moves now engine off I can only pull it back to just about half way travel. This stays the same when the bike is switched on too. The Brakes are what I can only describe as savage now, really bite hard, no fade, and after some serious testing on the way home on quite roads doing emergancy stops the performance continued. No ABS fault lights etc, so far so good I say, the brakes feel like they should in my head now. So I need a longer ride to test the proper effects on the modulator being changed. All parts were replaced under Honda Goodwill and all I can say is that the dealer I went to bent over backwards for me and I can and will highly recommend John Banks Honda in Bury St Edmunds. Provided me with a NC700s (A cracking little bike!) to ride around on while mine was being repaired.
Hi Pete. I had my Blades brake fluid done at the start of last week, before going over to Europe. I have just got back and after nearly 2000 miles I can say that the brakes were fantastic.. I felt far more in touch with the brakes than before they were bled.
This thread should be compulsory reading for anyone purchasing a Honda bike with C-ABS. It would be nice if Honda gave new owners some information about how the ABS brakes work and feel to avoid all this confusion and resentment! I've been following along with great interest as I have most of the "issues" mentioned here in my brand new 2012 1000rr. I don't get the dead battery one, so they have probably updated the ECU in the 2012 models, but I certainly have the "lever going to the grip with no brakes", and the "feathering" issue. The double full 22 page, 4 hour bleed recommended by Honda tech seems to have cured the "floppy lever going to the grips" problem, and now I only have the "feathering causing a small amount of increased lever throw" issue. I've been trying to find out if this is normal (that is a flaw in brake design which can never be fixed by randomly replacing expensive parts) or not. This thread has been a wealth of information, and it sounds like whenever anyone gets a new ECU to fix the dead battery issue in the '09 model, they suddenly develop the feathering issue (or at least notice it) - so I'm guessing that it's probably a function of improper programing of the updated ECU. Thank you to Kentblade for so clearly delineating this complicated intermittant scenario. I just wonder, though, if the brake lever movement problems are related to the ECU being "fooled" into thinking that a skid is occuring, then the ABS light should come on (I believe this is what's supposed to happen if the ABS are activated). As far as I can tell, the light hasn't come on with any of my issues, although it's hard to tell because I'm not usually looking down at the cluster when it's occurring. BTW, since I can see that there are going to be many 4 hour "full system" brake bleeds in my bikes future, is this something that I can do myself, or is it best left to a dealer? Where can I find a C-ABS service manual for download to see what's involved? Thanks again for great info Amnesia
To Pete1987 and Shing90; Glad to hear you guys are so happy with your brakes now. It must be reassuring. I've had my brakes bled twice by the dealer, and Honda has authorized a "front modulator" replacement If I'm not satisfied. I have to say, things have much improved with the bleed. I don't seem to get the lever going to the bar issue anymore, but the feathering causing increased lever throw for one or two pumps is still there. I haven't been able to test ride very much yet, so i'm not positive. I have very little confidence that these problems won't reappear down the line. I'm trying to decide whether to push for the front modulator replacement or leave well enough alone. My question for you guys is this: -Now that you have replaced the front modulator, do you have ANY increased front brake lever throw after feathering, or any fade at all in any situation? -Do your brakes feel exactly like great NON C-ABS brakes (as they are supposed to)? -Are there ANY abnormal feelings at all? If not, and your brakes are perfect, I'm going to insist on a front modulator replacement as I don't think the problem has been completely rectified by bleeding alone. It's a shame that one has to virtually become a "Honda Mechanic" to figure out if their bike is working properly or not! Thanks for all the help Amnesia
Thankfully you didn't rear end something . Interesting that you had a problem with the 2012 Abs as I thought it had all been sorted out with the newer blade. i did um and r about whether to get the abs version when i got my new blade in February and did a lot of searching on this forum and plumbed for the non abs version in the end. Hopefully Honda will get it corrected asap.
My question for you guys is this: -Now that you have replaced the front modulator, do you have ANY increased front brake lever throw after feathering, or any fade at all in any situation? -Do your brakes feel exactly like great NON C-ABS brakes (as they are supposed to)? -Are there ANY abnormal feelings at all? If not, and your brakes are perfect, I'm going to insist on a front modulator replacement as I don't think the problem has been completely rectified by bleeding alone. It's a shame that one has to virtually become a "Honda Mechanic" to figure out if their bike is working properly or not! Thanks for all the help Amnesia[/QUOTE] Hi Amnesia, I agree with MrB, if you can get the modulator changed under warranty I.e costing you nothing then I'd go for that for sure. My bike was out of warranty (2010 model) so I had to stump up for the 4 hour brake fluid change. To answer your questions: My front modulator was not changed, just bled. Can't comment compared to a non ABS model as I've never rode one. In the near 2000 miles I have done in the past week, yes I had an ever so slight loss of brake whilst stationary, but I've come to accept that this is a characteristic (especially on 2010/11) of the ABS model. But on the whole the brakes were very good and I felt far more in touch with the brakes as I have done on my previous bikes. (None ABS)
Amnesia, Just to correct one point, the feathering issue effects all ABS Blades, not just those with the latest ABS ECU, which is on the 11 onwards bikes. My 2010 RRA had the problem before Honda replaced the ECU. IMO its just something you learn to ride around.
Ah, that's a good question. I took my bike to the dealer where I purchased the bike new (the only dealer for miles) for the 1K service they overfilled the oil by 500cc's! They also spilled brake fluid all over the bodywork and didn't clean it up. I'm kinda nervous letting them replace a critical part in the brakes. Don't want more problems with leaking brake parts due to shoddy work. One of those "if it ain't broke don't fix it" things. That's why I'm dying to know if the guys who have had the modulator replaced had ALL their problems resolved (ie the feathering issue) resolved. I kinda get the idea that this one might just be a design "quirk" of the brakes. Hopefully Pete1987 can answer this one for me
Kentblade See, that's what I need to know. If that's the case, then I will leave well enough alone and not let them monkey around with my bike any further. You've amassed an amazing amount of knowledge regarding the design and workings of Honda's C-ABS (more than anyone should ever have to know IMHO). It's too bad that it all has to be guess work and unconfirmed. The service people at Honda should be able to tell us this kind of stuff with certainty, so that consumers could just ride the damn things rather than worrying about how they actually are designed to work. I just want to ride my bike, enjoy it, and know that it's going to stop when I need it to, and the way I want it to! I don't think that's too much to ask from a "superbike". It's funny that none of the "expert" reviewers have every mentioned any of this stuff to my knowledge. They all seem to say that C-ABS feels EXACTLY like Non-C-ABS brakes, and you can't feel the difference. Well, I sure can (and I'm no expert)
I would not say I have an amazing amount of knowledge on it, just been webbing around and trying to put 2 and 2 together and making a number. I am not sure if my thinkings are correct or not, but I really think Pete is onto something with the heat issue, because although a braking system is not fully sealed, there appears to be far to much air in the C ABS systems, and it has to come from somewhere, so heat causes potential boiling which results in steam in the system which causes air........it sounds plausible, and I am sure if the mod was not in the hottest part of the bike, then we would not even be discussing these issues. As far as the bike journos who test these things its a difficult one.....you make your living out of reviewing bikes, are you really gonna p**s off the biggest bike manufacturer in the world?
abv. This is what I want to hear. So there still must be something wrong with my setup. I'm definitely going to press the dealer to do something about it. Thanks for the info
Just to add to this I've never had an issue on my 2012 either. I've now covered 13,500 miles without a C-ABS hickup of any sort
Just as an aside, boiling DOES NOT create air. The air would have to be IN the fluid in the first place. And although you do get SOME water ingress into the brake fluid (Directly through the lines apparently), you are NOT going to get enough air in that small amount of fluid (Especially after only a few weeks - remember 2 years SHOULD be less than 2% water). In fact if there is any air even if you do manage to boil the fluid (At abut 155 deg C with DOT4 once you get to > 3%) it should then be re-absorbed (If it was absorbed in the first place, you'd expect it to be reabsorbed) And considering the engine coolant only gets to 120 deg C max (The engine cuts out at about 122 IIRC) you're NOT going to get the brake fluid boil from that... Especially NEW brake fluid which will boil at 230 deg C. If there's enough water in my brake fluid after only 2 months to boil at anything < 200deg C, then that's a bloody design fault. Pure and simple H
Right time for my information. Since the modulator has been replaced the brakes are completely different. I have been warned that the feathering of the brakes fools the abs system and have been told to avoid feathering them. Easy enough really. The heat issue was mentioned by the 3 different Honda tecnicians.; and from experience when my brakes failed it was when the bike was hot during a ride and until it had cooled down the modulator squelched whenever I applied the brakes. With the modulator being mounted near the exhaust headers, radiator and cylinder head the modulator itself will get hot, as will tje fluid. The Honda Techs said the modulator is likely to be moved on the next generation blades, like they moved it on the new cbr600. If you are having problems definitely try to get it replaced if you can So far though to sum up the bikes been very very good.
I'm starting to think that this "feathering" issue is normal operation for C-ABS. It's definitely different than the problem of "the levers going right to the grips when applying the brakes while riding with very poor braking function". This problem seems to be related to air in the system. Honda Tech's instructions to the dealer to do a full system bleed (2 times) seems to have rectified the problem in my case. The fact that the bleeding procedure is so complicated (and apparently completely unknown to most dealers) might be the reason that it's not always effective in resolving the issue on the first or second try. Reading many posts on this issue, it seems to me that most of those who properly bleed their systems get much improved braking performance and this issue generally goes away. For some it requires replacing the front "power unit" to get rid of the problem. This may be more related to the bleeding proceedure which would be necessarily done after the part replacement, than the actual part being defective. Whether the air re-accumulates or not only time will tell. I definitely agree with travellingkiwi that the accumulation of air in the system should not occur with "boiling" for all the reasons he gave. Why there was excessive air in the system in a brand new bike like mine is unclear. Honda would be wise to improve their initial bleeding procedures to eliminate owner frustration (and unnecessary expensive part replacement)! After my full bleed this issue of change in lever position really only occurs when I slow down to pretty much stopped (or coasting), partially release the front brake and then re-apply it. It still activates the brakes properly, but the leaver is about 2-3 mm closer to the grip. After one squeeze. the lever returns to it's normal position and throw. Despite the fact that some like Samd1985 & abv don't seem to experience this phenomenon, many of us do. I finally went back to the owners manual and found this quote from the "masters of understatement" at Honda: "You may feel a change in the way the brake lever/pedal reacts when it is operated under the following conditions: -Immediately after turning the ignition switch to ON -After braking to a stop and applying the brakes again" Sounds pretty much like what I'm experiencing! I do love riding my Blade, and think that the ABS brakes are a good idea that will possibly save me one day. It's just a new thing for most of us and the feel takes a bit of getting used to. I'm going to go enjoy riding and forget about this "minor" shortcoming of this amazingly complex system (and hope that I never need to bleed them again - at least for 2 years or 19,200 km as per the instructions in the manual) Thanks to everyone on this forum for all the useful information, and I hope this thread helps any other perplexed new owners of this fantastic bike. ABS is definitely here to stay, and while Honda has done a great job of design on this first generation, I'm sure that the ABS systems will only get better with time Amnesia
