As it is your braking system it can make you doubt the ability of your Blade and really ruin your enjoyment of which is frankly an awesome machine. Yes the ABS system has it's quirks and needs you to keep on top of maintenance but unless you have had any of the loss of braking scenarios/ flashing ABS lights dont let it make you lose any sleep. Sometimes you can read too much into things especially on forums, people including myself will highlight the problems making issue look more prevalent but in reality it could be a very small proportion of the total. Honda sell a bucket load of ABS Blades, yes some have problems but the likelihood yours is OK. I've doubted my brakes but when I've needed them they have always stopped on a penny. Unless we (ABS owners) have flashing lights we need you just enjoy our machine.
I've never encountered the problem immediately after switching the ignition on. However the second one I can reproduce almost at will. Mainly because when I brake to a stop, I generally let the brakes off slightly as I come to a stop. This eliminates the bounce you normally get. If you do this and then as you come to a complete stop, pull the brake lever again oull notice your lever come back almost to the grip. This seems different from the lever collapse when feathering, as it doesn't SEEM to affect he braking... (i.e. I can't push the bike forward whereas the feathering instances seem to almost eliminate braking completely). H
I'm starting to think that there are 2 distinct issues here: 1] levers moving right to the grips with braking immediately after feathering (with almost complete loss of braking power) 2] braking and then partially releasing the brakes just prior to coming to a complete stop, and then reapplying the brakes - resulting in increased lever movement (2-3mm) on the final braking, but no loss in actual braking power Initially, I was experiencing both symptoms, and didn't even realize that they were 2 different issues. After the dealer carefully completely bled my brakes twice, #1 above has all but disappeared as far as I can tell. This was the real problem so I am pretty happy I still continue to experience #2, but this isn't much of a problem because the bike is moving very slowly (or not at all) and the brakes seem to work fine anyway. I've been pouring over the schematics for the ABS trying to figure out what's going on. I think this "quirk" is possibly related to a pressure differential which somehow develops between the "C-ABS" circuit which would be "on line" when brakes are initially applied, and the "conventional" circuit which apparently takes over when the bike slows below the ~6 kph ABS threshold. Or maybe the "conventional" circuit always has more throw than the C-ABS one. My plan is to disable the C-ABS circuit and see how the lever behaves. I wish I had a better understanding of the actual circuitry with all the bypasses and pressure relief valves. I've been using these videos to try and figure things out, but they aren't detailed enough: Honda C ABS explained Pt 1 - YouTube Honda C ABS explained Pt 2 - YouTube Honda's New C ABS System - YouTube Amnesia
I can/sometimes do disable the cabs circuit (electrically speaking) by setting a toggle switch to on/off. I installed the switch but you can experience the same effect by removing the 10A fuse under the rider seat. When the cabs is turned off, the brakes work in the conventional sense, but they are not very good. I have to adjust the lever further from the bar to compensate. The upside is that you know they will work; ideal for trackdays.
OK going to throw a spanner into the works. With the feathering issue, I agree the sensation is loss of braking totally. Then stamp on the rear at the same time and the bike stops, so it makes me think that the ECU accepts the input from the rear brake and takes over, its like 2 separate systems at that point, the ECU has stopped responding to the position of the front lever, but is accurately working from the information from the rear pedal/system. I found this after suffering the feathering issue a couple of times in traffic.
Ya know, these brakes have been around for 5 years now. You'de think someone at Honda would know how they actually work (or don't) by now. If someone could actually explain what goes on in all the bits and pieces when the lever or pedal is pushed, it would be a lot easier to troubleshoot the problems that apparently many of us are having. You would think that Honda would have some sort of eduction program to help their mechanics deal with such new technologies. A good service manual with detailed schematics, as well as explained mechanism of action would also be helpful. The service department at my dealership had no clue how to work on them and had never serviced any before mine! They didn't even know how to bleed them, nevermind troubleshoot problems. Would the world accept Honda Accords with dysfunctional brakes? I don't think so. That said, my brakes are actually working quite well now and I'm getting used to all the "quirks". I don't think I would trade my Blade for a "non-ABS" version. I kinda like the technology. And even without brakes it totally kicks the s**t out of my Ducati! (Just not as pretty, but it's close) I hope you guys get yours all sorted out so you can forget about braking and simply enjoy the amazing throttle and handling of this incredible bike. Amnesia
Trouble is you're not always balanced to stamp on the damn rear brake when it happens. I've had it happen as I'm about to put my foot down. Or simply moving the bike left or right and don't have my arse planted firmly on the seat to do the stamping... H
Hear Hear! Must be someone from Honda reading these forums. How about you go and grab someone who CAN speak to your customers and provide some real information on this and what Honda are doing? Are they simply going to hide behind the design faults (Because I suspect this was found and someone in markiting decided that putting a vague reference in the manual to feathering constituted a 'fix' - like Amnesia said, you WOULD NOT get past this on a car. Why you think a bike should be treated any less I have no idea). Or will they eventually say sorry, fix the damn design so feathering DOES NOT cause an issue and issue a recall to fix all the broken brake systems (Yes I consider the feathering problem to be a broken brake system). Will it take a serous injury or even death for you to do something? H
Kiwi Read the manual page 52a, Brake failure, feathering issue: If all else fails put your feet down and eventually you will come to a halt. Hondas emergency override braking system I believe.
Can someone explain how they trigger this feathering issue ? I'm not sure what you mean by feathering. If you are riding along dragging the brakes that's just a bad riding technique.
Abv, Rather then on then off with the front brake, you modulate the front brake pressure as you filter/pass slow moving/stationry traffic or carrying out low speed maneuvering.
You are normally encountering this when riding in traffic as stated above, just slow modulated braking so that you come to a nice steady stop, nothing to do with dragging brakes, its the sort of issue that if you do a lot of traffic/filtering work you will find, ie typical commuter type riding. No way to prove it, but I think it is inherent in every ABS Blade, just depends on your riding conditions whether you trigger it or not.
Thats just stupidity... (Dragging the brakes while riding normally that is) The feathering issue can be brought about when riding in traffic (filtering). As you come through, you're sometimes wanting to slow down very slowly... So you apply the brakes a little. As you get past, you release a little, but not all the way, then apply a bit more (i.e. you're slowing at a certain point between each car, because THEY are also slowing up). After about 2-3 times doing this (Not releasing the brake, just varying the pressure between ALMOST nothing and a bit more), your brake lever will collapse ALMOST to the grip, and doesn't matter how hard you squeeze, you will have almost no brakes. When it does this, there's NO flashing ABS light either... Just a feeling of 'Oh Shit!'. It's dangerous when filtering, because sometimes you need full brakes (Because an arse has pulled out for example). You've generally not got the time to piss around stamping on the foot brake. Or release and re-grab the lever. So the feathering is just using the brakes, to gradually slow, but with a slight release ever second or two without releasing completely. H
HI I posted 7/3/13 about the ABS issue and my 2012 bike being taken in.....well I got it back last Thursday and have done over 400 miles with no issues. I was able to try the brakes in lots of different situations even lots of feathering past a 3 mile queue of traffic on Bank Holiday Saturday - It has been faultless no matter what I have done to the brakes even to the point of engaging the ABS on gravel. The mechanic at the Honda dealer did explain to me twice but he could have been talking Klingon to me Well, he explained the braking system, in that the stroke simulator reads the pressure you apply and then the innards convert that to pressure via motors on the calipers, so you aren;'t really braking, the system i doing it for you so to speak.......scary. My problem was that there are 2 breather tubes that go to atmosphere and one was kinked resulting in a vacuum that fooled the system. The system was also bled. Seeing as my 2 instances of loss of pressure at the lever were over 6 months apart, I will wait and see iof it occurs again I have never had any ABS warning light illumination only the loss of pressure at lever The recovery company admitted liability damaging the under tray panels whilst removing the bike at the garage end after recovering via Honda Assistance. New panels were fitted whilst it was in Lashing it down with rain today, not going to bother testing it in the rain
Now this problem is starting to irritate me, happened a few times before thought it was just in my head, but its not happened twice today and bike over rev, as i pulled on the brake due to the way it returned casued me to pull throttle back. . Name: Jimglasgow Model Year: 2013 Reported to Honda: No Taken to Dealership:No, Mentioned it, said they weren't aware of the problem Description of fault:Front brake goes right back to grip, albeit never happen at speed seems to be either when going slow or stopped at lights. Started noticing it a while ago but happen loads today whilst traveling through the town. so its going in as far as im concern its not my bloody imagination. Has Honda recognised the issue? Description of work carried out: Nothing yet Problem Resolved: No
Well I had my modulator changed so I am sure they know about the problems. Especially as they are also documented in this month's Ride magazine too. Get your dealer to speak to Honda Technical UK
Hi Pete/All, Name: Repsol1 Model Year: 2013 Reported to Honda: Not yet Taken to dealership: Not yet Mileage: Under 1000 Description of fault: My drive slopes slightly down hill (ride in up hill). I was letting it roll back to the road and pulled the front brake to slow down. Alarmed!! It all but came back to the bar and the braking was greatly reduced. ABS light on anyway as I had not exceeding speed to turn off, so I don't know if it indicated a fault. More often than not there is clicking noise (abs pump)? when turning the ignition on. Riding I have had no problems but not tried it from 120mph as another member repoted! From what you say it would appear that it needs to go to dealer asap. Thanks to all for your efforts on this one Cheers.
Just to say to all people on this thread. Please please don't just report it to the dealers. Phone Honda UK about the problem. I have listed the number on here I believe. Dealers won't phone the area of Honda that log faults. They will only phone for technical help. It is crucial you phone to log the fault with Honda UK and get a reference number, before you go to a dealer. Without that happening people will continually get told there are no problems logged. Phone number below just on case Honda uk contact number: 0845 200 8000
I spoke to a lady called Sarah Turner My reference number is now in your thread as are all of the people who have contributed to this one.
