Not being a mechanic, but why would that happen to a new bike after a 1200 miles as I never got it before, just started to develop around then. I got my brakes bled by Honda and its still there, so I think its more than air in the brakes.
Hey this link explains more about how the c-abs units work on the honda sportsbikes. 2009 Honda CBR600RR C-ABS Review - Motorcycle.com But what it does look like to me is the stroke simulator inside the valve unit does not always give the correct feedback to the lever and allows the lever to move freely to the bar. Remember the abs system works slightly differently and the pressure applied to the lever does not go straight to the calipers as in normal braking systems it is diverted into the above valve unit and the stroke simulator is used to give some feeling to the lever.
Ur information is helpful, however the last few bikes I have had (3) have all been ABS and the lever never behaved this way! When you pulled the brake always pressured where you expected and never dropped unexpectedly to the handlebar.
Potentially a problem in the electronics described or the valve.., don't know I'm know specialist, just know its gubbed
Jim I am not saying there is not a problem or issue here as I have previously stated in earlier posts, I was really trying to show others what the system consists of and where a possible problem lies. What I was trying to show was that when the brakes are applied the resistance felt at the lever is caused by the stroke simulator(simulates pushing caliper piston) there is a pressure sensor attached to the stroke simulator to measure how hard the lever is being pulled this data is sent to the ECU and it then decides how much hard to push the actual caliper pistons! The thing I have issue with is once all the brake system has been bled properly of all the air the only way air should gain access to the system is if the reservoir runs low or a seal ruptures. Also I can't see from the diagram if there is a pressure bypass system in the stroke simulator area of the unit as that's the only way I can see for the lever to act like it is doing. Miby someone with more knowledge can give a better explanation than me tho.
I was not questioning you, sorry if if it came across that way buddy. Your information and overview was very welcomed, I just think there is a problem for reasons I have explained earlier.
Anyone heard anything back from VOSA other than there are investigating as I haven't heard anything further
Nothing heard from them apart from an email to say that they had received my email and were looking into it.
See this thread, I have forwarded it to Martin Ryder at VOSA http://1000rr.co.uk/general-1000rr-discussion/12840.htm
Will be worthwhile, everything helps! .....It must be in his head, as Honda say it's the characteristics of the brakes, obviously this a worldwide statement from Honda!
Just as an update: I had the opportunity to go on a "test ride" at a Honda Canada sponsored event. Rode a Repsol 1000rr C-ABS as well as a 600rr C-ABS (both 2013). They both did the exact same "soggy lever" crap that my bike does (lever engagement point moving closer to grip with feathering in hot "stop & go" traffic - occasionally making braking close to impossible). The 1000 was a bit less than mine, and the 600 exactly the same. Perhaps a proper bleed will fix the problem as others have reported - I can't say. But I doubd it. A more likely conclusion is that this is simply how Honda's C-ABS brakes work - period! I likely won't be replacing my power modulator since this will require "opening" the system thereby introducing more air into the circuit. If Honda had stuck to a "conventional" ABS setup (like Kawi) there probably wouldn't have been a problem. Using this stupid "break by wire" system to make the ABS "unobtrusive" to "racers" was just plain stupid. Now, instead of being obtrusive only when the ABS kicks in (in life threatening situations), they are obtrusive ALL of the time - and completely undependable to boot! Besides, no true "racer" wants anything to do with ABS - whatever the type. Unfortunately, in Canada, the 1000rr only comes in the C-ABS variety - further proof that Honda has completely lost touch with it's market base and is no longer the premier manufaturer of high end sportsbikes that it once was. Too bad none of the many "unbiased" reviewers in the mags had noticed this glaring shortcoming. I trusted the reviews and was led to believe that C-ABS was perfection! Amnesia
Hi Bud, Although your point is interesting my mate has a C-ABS on his CBR1000R and doesn't have the same systems, so its not an issue with the C-ABS symptoms. In addition i never started to notice this until around 1200 miles, brakes where find until then. For what its worth, the Vehicle and Operator and Safety Agency in the UK are currently investigating the issue. We are awaiting their findings! https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/vehicle-and-operator-services-agency Should highlight that the CB1000R isnt a Electronic Combined ABS what is found on the Fireblade.
Thought I would give you an update! My bike is at the dealer and has been for six weeks and they have done some fundamental checks which I have been very grateful to! I was also advised VOSA had been to Honda and were satisfied with the brakes. However when I called VOSA yesterday that wasn't quiet the case and when I had a discussion on the findings the dealer shared, that being the lever dropped when bike was moving and not only happened when bike was stationary and question and that the combined braking system is in use in other bikes such as the CB1000R and it never behaves in the same manner, both things the dealer agreed with which I shared with VOSA. Instigated a call later in the day from VOSA to advise me Honda wanted my bike back to their centre. Obviously the dealer shared his findings with Honda and therefore they have acted on the brief from him. Not sure what the outcome will be for all us encountering the problem but hopefully something positive.
Jim, What is your dealer actually planning on doing besides keeping your bike safe at nite for you? Are they admitting after all the tests and checks that there is a problem with your bike or are they saying its normal & deal with it? But as Vosa is involved want to spend more time going over everything again? I don't own an ABS blade but have managed to get the lever to the bar on ColinBr's 2010 blade when taking it up to his new home few months back! He has never had an issue or noticed any problems but I take it out n in less than 15miles get the lever goin through its stroke to the bar while pulling up to get fuel. Last month I had a similar experience at the Ron Haslam School where I get on the schools 600rr with abs n within 50 feet traveling down the pits to queue up to go on track the same thing lever back to bar and me almost collecting our instructor! Not exactly confidence inspiring less than 30 seconds after flinging my leg over the bike in our first session! As with the blade letting off the lever and upon pulling the lever again, the thing goes solid! Never had another issue with the brakes again but I am sure I adopted a more on or off only braking method!
Thats how you need to use it; on & off like a switch. Dont try use it to fine tune slowing down speed otherwise you are certain to find the system limits. Its all a bit pants really isnt it!
Mines been at the Dealers for two days now after going in for a Full Bleed. Not heard owt from them and am too chicken to ring up!
No the garage have been brilliant. The upshot is VOSA were satisfied with the brakes generally, and may have been in a position to close out the case. However I pointed out something additional to VOSA, including the video highlighting the bike moving while the brake leaver drops. I think they may have contacted Honda, who I think contacted the dealer. Since then then Honda have contacted me asking if they can pick the bike up from the dealer. I would therefore make the assumption Honda contacted the dealer who confirmed his findings, thats my assumption.
From What I'm starting to see I think its down to the Electronic Combined ABS Systems, so will expect those with a Electronic Combined will be having issues only the CBR600RR and CBR1000RR, although not sure when electronic element was introduced.
Well got my Bike back today after a full 16 Hours of Dealer workshop time fitting the HEL lines and doing the Bleed. I think if the Dealer see's another C-ABS Bike this side of the year 3000 it's be 100 years too soon! Anyways it's all fine and dandy now and I'm off on a four day Tour to Sunny/Rainy Yorkshire so shall report my findings Sunday/Monday night!
ive had a response from Martin at VOSA, and it really does seem that he's not paid any attention to what any of us have told him or provided information to him about this. He and two other Honda engineers have ridden 2 (yes, only two) similar bikes and surprise surprise, they didn't find anything wrong with the bikes. common sense would dictate that they use one of the bikes from the HUGE pool bikes that are seeing this issue, im sure any of us would be more than happy to donate our bikes for testing. Anyway, here's what he wrote The Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA) and the manufacturer have now completed the investigation into the above. I am therefore able to inform you of the outcome. Our acknowledgement letter of 29 July 2013 explained that the purpose any investigation carried out within the terms of the Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects (the Code), which has the support of the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (as amended), is to establish if the defect is a failure due to design or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom. Two experienced engineers and riders employed by Honda rode machines, which included a machine which is the subject of a report, with no concerns raised. I had also ridden two similar machines with no problems experienced. Without evidence of the defect the case cannot be progressed. The official response from the manufacturer concludes there is no evidence of the problem to warrant an action within the terms of the Code. If you want to discuss this matter in more detail please do not hesitate to contact me.
