Ive never followed bsb or anything so have no idea if this can be relevant but how do hondas lap times compare from last year to this year? I did note that honda was relatively competitive last year with podiums so is it the case that the other manufacturers have moved forward and left the honda behind or is this years honda lacking over last years bike which they had spent X years fine tuning.
euro fat cats are the reason for Honda doing shit in bsb...... Awesome. said it god knows how many times. Stock is a better indication of a bikes competitiveness for road bike comparison. bit of a clue here last time I checked... Kwak, yama and Suzuki were all non euro manufacturers????
Honda (Japan) use a Bosch (German) ECU. Bosch (German) use Japanese, Chinese, Taiwan, India etc components. They make the components using materials such as rare earth metals from Africa. Victor aged 11 mines these materials in some horrible African state, ergo Victor is responsible for Honda's poor performance. QED. Even if Bosch were supplying "iffy" ECUs Honda' quality control should pick it up. Bosch will supply what Honda specify, if they don't they won't get paid and would probably incur severe financial penalities. Sorry Mattie you are heading east whilst the plot has gone west.
VW have settled $23 billion in the US. That does not include other national criminal investigations - nor does it include lawsuits brought in countries outside the US. BOSCH were implicated in this and have settled the greater part of the criminal proceedings filed against them, paying a fine of $327.5 million in fines. They supplied the 'cheat devices' that enabled this to be done - although naturally they have said it was not their fault. The important point is that it was a deliberate and calculated crimes. They tried to cover this up by trying to destroy documents, which landed them a $4 billion fine. They set out to cheat us the public for their corporate profit - and you guys are defending them. You are defending these corporate bastards. How ignorant is that that you will speak up for these corporate bastards - look at what they have done - and you defend them. BOSCH may not have robbed the bank but it could be argued they drove the getaway car.
So our point being that if Honda aren't using Bosch product on the wsb bike (control ecu) why are you blaming them?
And the road bike uses Bosch for the abs and imu sensors! Keihin are the company that Honda have traditionally used for the ecu both road bike and the HRC ecu which if you look up are Japanese And as they strip off the abs etc from the race bikes
Really, is that any kind of useful answer ? Is that what these discussions end up being - nonsense and stupid pictures ? I had a look at the Honda website regarding the SP, and it seems the BOSCH IMU has quite a job to do. The IMU controls: From Honda News: "The new electronic control system provides constant, selectable and fine-tunable rider support. Central to the system is the 5-axis Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU), which measures exactly what the machine is doing, in every plane. It works the Honda Selectable Torque Control (HSTC) that precisely manages rear wheel traction via the FI-ECU and Throttle By Wire (TBW). The new ABS (also managed by the IMU) offers Rear Lift Control (RLC) and the ability for hard, safe trail braking into corners. Any difference measured between the front and rear wheel speeds engages Wheelie Control, depending on settings. It also works with the Öhlins Objective Based Tuning Interface to adjust both the compression and rebound damping force of the semi-active Öhlins Electronic Control (S-EC) front fork and rear shock. For the rider this means access to a whole new level of handling ability, with suspension reaction—whether working through pre-sets 2017 CBR1000RR SP or manual input—that delivers exactly the right amount of control in every situation. It functions as well on the road as it does the track, and for Honda a new era begins. At the same time as the S-EC is working the suspension, the Honda Selectable Torque Control (HSTC) is precisely managing rear wheel traction through the IMU, FI-ECU and Throttle By Wire (TBW). It also delivers a Wheelie Control function. Three standard display modes—Street, Circuit and Mechanic—provide all the information required for the rider relevant to the type of riding. The information displayed can be fine-tuned and adjusted while riding by using the left-hand switch gear and TFT liquid crystal display, just as on the RC213V-S, Honda’s road going version of its RC213V MotoGP machine." The whole point of the SP2 Homologation version is so that they provide a near race spec bike road bike from standard so that you are allowed to use it in WSBK - but you are telling me that Honda goes to all the expense to equip the SP2 with full electronics package just so that they can go to WSBK and take it all off again ! From Cycleworld: "Consider the racing element, too, and that, from 2017, World Superbike regulation will no longer enable teams to adapt ride-by-wire throttle to a homologated model that does not come standard with the same system. Losing ride-by-wire on its Superbike, and thus the traction control system that it's been using, would set Honda's racing efforts back even further, thus the need for an electronics overhaul." I do get some bizarre responses on this forum, to perfectly reasonable arguments.
Do you honestly believe that Bosch would deliberately supply under performing parts to one of the World's largest manufacturers of amongst other things bikes and cars, just so a European company wins some races/championships? Bosch and Honda would have worked on the design and the specifications together. Bosch will have built it against those criteria, and Honda would have tested it against those criteria. If Bosch did somehow implement some form of knobbling then Honda would find it and the publicity would force Bosch out of the racing game as a minimum, not to mention the billions that Honda would sue them for as a result of loss of brand credibility and damage to their reputation. How about putting another twist on it? Bosch said X to Honda, but Honda insisted on Y. Bosch knew it would be problematic, told Honda so but Honda still said they wanted it, and they would sign something to say so. After all when Honda are wrong they don't like to admit it ala RR4/5 stators, 600F reg recs, and RR09+ c-abs to name a few. Trying to put the blame in Bosch, or another component manufacturer is either conspiracy theory or head in the sand. The name of the bike is the Honda Fireblade, and it is Honda's responsibility to deliver something fit for the task, and so far based upon results they have failed by quite some margin.
With VW dieselgate they were able to programme the engine management system to detect when a vehicle was being tested. They did this by sensing that the non drive wheels were stationary, and that the steering wheel was not receiving any inputs. Then the software/engine management changed the mixture control to enable the engine to run within specified limits in order to pass emission testing - the system was designed entirely to cheat and break the law, for corporate gain. They got away with it for a long time, witness how many vehicles were being sold - partly because this goes on within a 'black box' and because the average consumer is not aware after the the vehicle has been purchased - it drives normally and you would not notice any wrong doing. That is to me a very sophisticated criminal act that went for a long time without being detected, like some kind of computer virus that sits there without you knowing. It is also capable of detecting different circumstances, and applying different parameters according to what the vehicle is doing. Knowing all that, and BOSCH was involved - whether you like it or not, with or without your tin foil hat on. To me it is not a great leap of thought to imagine such a company BEING ABLE to do almost anything. I am not saying they did. But the sophistication of the VW dieselgate scandal, which is a huge corporate crime - costing tens of billions in fines and lawsuits - is not my conspiracy theory - I am not making it up - have a look, Google it - and BOSCH are implicated in it. They are implicated in their involvement, which effectively gave a German auto manufacturer(s) an unfair advantage !! We are only at the start of testing, so this is only unfolding now. Honda's reputation is already suffering - but you see all this, and no alarm bells ring at all for you. I suppose only time will tell why Honda are struggling so much.
.....and another thing ! I am just airing ideas - I do not want to fall out over it - it is putting ideas on the forum - if I am wrong I can live with that - but we can discuss it without falling out over it, I hope ! Peace. Matt
Marco is an Italian male, Italian Males are called Marco. Bosch did something bad once, Honda are doing badly because of Bosch. Assumptive logic is a funny beast and very often proven wrong. Honda will have had the Bosch kit for a very long time, and would have done significant amounts of testing in it and fwd the results back to Bosch. The fact that is is performing badly when the season has started is either down to Honda, solar flares or Brexit. I know which one I would blame, but then I don't work for the BBC.
Honda stick to the rational 'We build road bikes that can go on the track, not track bikes that can go on the road'. We can all agree that the new Fireblade will be a great road bike. Honda hate the idea of a race bike on the road, hence why they have put hefty premiums on the SP1 & (Track focussed) SP2. I can say they are out of reach for me and me and my wife are in good full time employment. They really couldn't be bothered releasing the RCV which they somehow damped down to a formidable road bike. The price on the RCV meant it was only obtainable to the types who have collections and are never going to ride it.
But if it's not a race bike why the price hike for the base model way above all the other manufacturers? I can understand the bikes with active suspension, if it's Ohlins then you add about £3k price hike, but I don't want active suspension as I'm not a racer and I can't afford it. It's basically an evolution of the current bike so yes a price increase is expected but what are we paying for that other manufacturers are managing to include at a reduced price. I'm not questioning Honda's quality either but I've owned a lot of other bikes from other manufacturers and I've never had an issue with any of them except a VF500 whose frame cracked. Hopefully if they do badly in the road racing bike sales will drop and new Blade prices will also drop, doubt it but that's my only chance of getting the new one.
